Minor tire rub with new wheels/tires

SadbutTrue

Founding Member
May 1, 2002
2,390
4
49
Granada Hills, California
Just got my 15x7 TTIIs on (3.75" backspacing) with 225 60r15 kumhos. There is a minor rub in hard turns and bounces on the front. I know a bunch of people on the wheel/tire chart were running this combo without trouble and without fender mods or rediculous suspension changes, so I'm wondering what the issue is.

I have stock style front springs, kyb's all around, no shelby mod, fenders aren't rolled. Steering setup is original power steering. The car does need an alignment, so perhaps that will help. No real desire to roll fenders if we don't have to.

One potential issue (which i sorta talked about in another thread) was my brakes. I think they're from a grenada setup, but they might be a hybrid of pieces. I'm going to take one of the wheels off tonight and get a picture to see if anyone can ID it one way or another.

Thanks for any help you can give.
 
  • Sponsors (?)


No offense, but I could have told you there would be tire rub with only 3.75" backspacing and a tall tire like a 225 60 15.

Drop that front tire down to a 225 50 and you'll reduce rub and have a better handling car. You'll probably still need to roll the front fender though with the 3.75" backspacing.

Proper planning is essencial to fitting "wide tires". Its not an accident I'm able to fit a 245 tire up front without rubbing.
 
No offense, but I could have told you there would be tire rub with only 3.75" backspacing and a tall tire like a 225 60 15.

Drop that front tire down to a 225 50 and you'll reduce rub and have a better handling car. You'll probably still need to roll the front fender though with the 3.75" backspacing.

Proper planning is essencial to fitting "wide tires". Its not an accident I'm able to fit a 245 tire up front without rubbing.


None taken, but when I asked last week, everyone just said look at the wheel/tire chart. Which sorta begs the question... 'why didn't you?' And a bunch of people are running the 225 60r15s with that wheel/backspaec (according to the chart, anyway). Ah well... won't be the last time I throw away a bunch of money on this car...
 
drop that tire down to a 225 50 and you'll reduce rub and have a better handling car. You'll probably still need to roll the front fender though with the 3.75" backspacing.
QUOTE]

Okay, my options in that case are to: exchange the wheels (either the front 2 or all... would they look weird with different backspacing for front and rear?) for wheels with more backspacing (4"? 4.5"?) or get 225 50r15 tires and roll the fenders. It seems tirerack.com would take the tires back (though its gonna cost me at least 100 bucks to dismount the tires, send them back, and then remount the new ones), so if I get the 50 height tires that should solve the problem right? at least 3/4 of the 65/66 owners with 15x7s are running 3.75" bs, so i figure that can't be that big an issue...
 
You mean this chart?

http://www.dodgestang.com/Tire Fitment Guide 65-6.pdf

Where the only entry I can find on it with a 225 60 15 tire on a 15x7 with 3.75 bs and otherwise all stock suspension says the front lips are rolled?

The other entrys

I see 3 have global west front arms which means they have the mount point lowered and run alignment different than stock.

YOu need to check the alignment on the car?
Do you know what it is now? Do you know what it should be?
You should have the shelby drop done.
 
Have you checked the alignment on the car?
Do you know what it is now?
Do you have the shelby drop done?

Apparently I read it wrong. I only see 4 entries going back through. I did ask last week, but I'm not really looking to argue about it, heh.

I answered most of those questions in the first post, but to summarize: I have stock control arms now... I do plan to do the shelby drop in time but not at the moment. The car does need a realignment but I don't know how far out of whack it is.
 
Sounds like it's rubbing on the bottom front where the fender curves in, a common place for rub on our cars with 225/60-15. 225/50 would need some lowering to get rid of the fender gap. 215/60 is a common size on 65/66 cars. I'd suggest finding a local wheel/tire place that sells used tires so you can experiment for less.
 
Apparently I read it wrong. I only see 4 entries going back through. I did ask last week, but I'm not really looking to argue about it, heh.

I answered most of those questions in the first post, but to summarize: I have stock control arms now... I do plan to do the shelby drop in time but not at the moment. The car does need a realignment but I don't know how far out of whack it is.

That's ok...I only try to help. I try very hard to make sure there is no incorrect information on the chart, because of this I end up tossing out 3-4x more entries than I received because they info just wasn't complete enough. So I am always concerned if I hear there is a mistake and immediately go check it myself to make sure I didn't miss something.

Even a 215 60 15 is notorious for rubbing on a 3.75 bs wheel. Some people have been able to pull it off, but on 2 cars personally I had to roll the front fender lip. The first set up wheels I ever bought for my fastback were 15x7 3.75 TTds. They got sold with the 215 50 15 tires that I bought with less than 2 miles on them. So I know mistakes can be costly. Its the very reason I assembled the chart, to help others avoid similar mistakes whenever possible.

IMO, you should jack the car up this weekend, lower the stock arms an inch (aka Shelby drop) then take it to a shop on Monday and have them dial in -2 to -3 camber and drive the car. It shouldn't rub then unless you have severely worn suspension or metal that is way out of spec. You will wear the inside edge of the tire a little faster but if you rotate your tires routinely you can use the tire you have for now and then think about long term plans.
 
That's ok...I only try to help. I try very hard to make sure there is no incorrect information on the chart, because of this I end up tossing out 3-4x more entries than I received because they info just wasn't complete enough. So I am always concerned if I hear there is a mistake and immediately go check it myself to make sure I didn't miss something.

Even a 215 60 15 is notorious for rubbing on a 3.75 bs wheel. Some people have been able to pull it off, but on 2 cars personally I had to roll the front fender lip. The first set up wheels I ever bought for my fastback were 15x7 3.75 TTds. They got sold with the 215 50 15 tires that I bought with less than 2 miles on them. So I know mistakes can be costly. Its the very reason I assembled the chart, to help others avoid similar mistakes whenever possible.

IMO, you should jack the car up this weekend, lower the stock arms an inch (aka Shelby drop) then take it to a shop on Monday and have them dial in -2 to -3 camber and drive the car. It shouldn't rub then unless you have severely worn suspension or metal that is way out of spec. You will wear the inside edge of the tire a little faster but if you rotate your tires routinely you can use the tire you have for now and then think about long term plans.


Does the shelby drop actually help with that? That might be the only way to convince my dad to help me do it. And I'll remember those specs when I do in fact take it for an alignment...
 
Frankly, I think that might be you're only hope outside of buying new tires or new wheels. You need to do it anyway, but this is a super convienent excuse to do it.

Get the template from dazecars.com for free or buy one made of metal from opentracker. It's the same template.
 
The Shelby drop causes the wheel to gain negative camber when turning, bring the top of the tire inboard. Without it, you get positive camber and the top of the tire moves outward when turning - thus, the source of some of your rubbing. This is why we recommend the Shelby mod to you. I ran a 225/50-16 tire, 16x7 rim with 4" BS, with the drop, no rolled fenders and without issue, with just -.5 degree camber setting, albeit with TCP upper arm. Yo MAY have to reduce to 215 or 205 front tire if you keep that BS, but the drop may cure it for you (225/60-15 is not as wide up top as a 16" tire). Do the drop and report back!
 
The Shelby drop causes the wheel to gain negative camber when turning, bring the top of the tire inboard. Without it, you get positive camber and the top of the tire moves outward when turning - thus, the source of some of your rubbing. This is why we recommend the Shelby mod to you. I ran a 225/50-16 tire, 16x7 rim with 4" BS, with the drop, no rolled fenders and without issue, with just -.5 degree camber setting, albeit with TCP upper arm. Yo MAY have to reduce to 215 or 205 front tire if you keep that BS, but the drop may cure it for you (225/60-15 is not as wide up top as a 16" tire). Do the drop and report back!

Gonna do the drop this weekend. If it doesn't fix the problem, I'll return the tires (hopefully they'll give me a refund despite the facti put about a mile on the tires :x... it still has the hairs and most of the markings on the tires...) and get 50 height tires instead. I'll let you know how it goes.
 
Are you even sure where it rubs? Shelby drop will not help if it's the lower edge of the fender that's rubbing. Find out first before wasting more time and money. Put some white shoe polish or something all over the inside lips of the fender. You might be surprised.
 
Are you even sure where it rubs? Shelby drop will not help if it's the lower edge of the fender that's rubbing. Find out first before wasting more time and money. Put some white shoe polish or something all over the inside lips of the fender. You might be surprised.

Well, I want to do the drop anyway and this is a good reason to do it. The tire store made a note that I'm going to attempt to fix it this weekend... I can still exchange the tires for something along the lines of 215 50r15s next week if it doesn't completely fix the problem (which I don't think it will, but i want to do this anyway). But yeah, I'll do some investigating before I throw anymore money at it.

I'm probably going to need some guidance with the shelby drop... i haven't taken apart the suspension on my own and my dad is going to be kinda busy this weekend. But whatever, I'm willing to give it a shot. Is there a way to minimize how much stuff I have to take apart?
 
Yeah, it's pretty simple.

I'd start at the corner DIY car wash and blast the front wheel houses as clean as I could before I started. I'd do it with the wheels cranked all the way to the left, and then do it again with the wheels cranked all the way to the right.

Raise car with jack and place on jackstands. Remove tires for access.

Loosen the Upper Control Arm (UCA) from the shock tower - one side at a time. Carefully remove the shims, making sure to not mix them up from front to back. Four ziplock bags and a sharpie will work wonders here. You'll have to realign the car anyway, but don't be a sadist to your alignment man and put it back as close to the way you found it as you can.

Remove the bolts that hold the spring perch to the UCA. DO NOT REMOVE THE SHOCK AT ANY TIME. It keeps the spring compressed and under tension. Remove the nuts on the UCA at the shock tower and swing away for access.

Drill holes using template. You need a 1/2 drill bit or 19/64 if you can find one. Use a centerpunch to mark the holes. Use a small drill bit to pilot the holes before you step up the big one. It's probablly easiest to drill the hole bigger in five or six step increments between 1/8 and 1/2".

Reinstall UCA in new lower holes with the old shims. Remount the spring perch on the UCA. Tow or trailer car to get aligned - or, drive real slow on the way to get the car aligned.

Have fun.
 
Yeah, it's pretty simple.

I'd start at the corner DIY car wash and blast the front wheel houses as clean as I could before I started. I'd do it with the wheels cranked all the way to the left, and then do it again with the wheels cranked all the way to the right.

Raise car with jack and place on jackstands. Remove tires for access.

Loosen the Upper Control Arm (UCA) from the shock tower - one side at a time. Carefully remove the shims, making sure to not mix them up from front to back. Four ziplock bags and a sharpie will work wonders here. You'll have to realign the car anyway, but don't be a sadist to your alignment man and put it back as close to the way you found it as you can.

Remove the bolts that hold the spring perch to the UCA. DO NOT REMOVE THE SHOCK AT ANY TIME. It keeps the spring compressed and under tension. Remove the nuts on the UCA at the shock tower and swing away for access.

Drill holes using template. You need a 1/2 drill bit or 19/64 if you can find one. Use a centerpunch to mark the holes. Use a small drill bit to pilot the holes before you step up the big one. It's probablly easiest to drill the hole bigger in five or six step increments between 1/8 and 1/2".

Reinstall UCA in new lower holes with the old shims. Remount the spring perch on the UCA. Tow or trailer car to get aligned - or, drive real slow on the way to get the car aligned.

Have fun.

Good advice. In addition, I normally leave out 1/8" of each bolts shims in order to keep the alignment a little more true.

Definitely get the car to an alignment shop right afterwards and have them align it to the newest "Shelby" specs, not the old Mustang ones.
 
Yeah, it's pretty simple.

I'd start at the corner DIY car wash and blast the front wheel houses as clean as I could before I started. I'd do it with the wheels cranked all the way to the left, and then do it again with the wheels cranked all the way to the right.

Raise car with jack and place on jackstands. Remove tires for access.

Loosen the Upper Control Arm (UCA) from the shock tower - one side at a time. Carefully remove the shims, making sure to not mix them up from front to back. Four ziplock bags and a sharpie will work wonders here. You'll have to realign the car anyway, but don't be a sadist to your alignment man and put it back as close to the way you found it as you can.

Remove the bolts that hold the spring perch to the UCA. DO NOT REMOVE THE SHOCK AT ANY TIME. It keeps the spring compressed and under tension. Remove the nuts on the UCA at the shock tower and swing away for access.

Drill holes using template. You need a 1/2 drill bit or 19/64 if you can find one. Use a centerpunch to mark the holes. Use a small drill bit to pilot the holes before you step up the big one. It's probablly easiest to drill the hole bigger in five or six step increments between 1/8 and 1/2".

Reinstall UCA in new lower holes with the old shims. Remount the spring perch on the UCA. Tow or trailer car to get aligned - or, drive real slow on the way to get the car aligned.

Have fun.

Wow. Thanks man. That sounds doable here...
 
I think you can. A couple more tips:

- Wash the car the night before. You can degrease the engine compartment while you're at it.

- Make sure you have the bags, sharpie, drill bit and a drill that will accept it BEFORE you take it apart.

- If you can transfer the template to a piece of scrap sheet metal, that'd really help.

- A self starting center punch will help you mark the template and the shock tower before you start drilling.

Orchard Supply Hardware will have all the stuff you need to do this if you find yourself short before you start.

If you screw up the alignment shims, it's not a big deal, but try to get it close.
 
got one side done, gonna do the other one tomorrow morning. also just got 2 new 225 50r15s for the front.... hopefully it doesn' tlook awful with the slightly bigger tires in the rear (trying to cut my losses though... college budgets). The tires should be here tuesday and the drop should be done by then as well, so hopefully the problem will have alleviated itself.