My $2000 Ignition - I need help!

[wahoo23]

You should not have to split anything. I went back and reread the thread. What MSD box are you running?
You say you have a SWITCHED 12v going to the MSD box. Tell us EXACTLY how you did this?

OK, I forgot about the MSD box earlier. All that is out the window. Nether of the wires matter at all. Referencing a MSD 6AL, ALL the orignal wires are removed from the coil. THe MSD Orange wire goes to the + coil post, the MSD Black goes to the coil - post. As long as you have SWITCHED 12v to the MSD Red wire in RUN position AND in the START postion of the ign switch, you should have no problems. If the car will not start with the key, you may not have switched 12v going to the MSD Red wire in the Start pos of the ign switch. Refer to you MSD directions exclusivly. Disregard all the BS I wrote. Sorry.

By "split" I mean tap into, or splice into, which is what I did with the red wire from the MSD 6a box. I tapped into the pink (even though it's not pink on my car) wire, which is supplying 12v when ignition is in the run position. So I need to get the switched "start-postion" wire connected to the red MSD wire.

 

[wahoo23]

THe MSD red switched 12v wire should not be connected to the factory red w/green strip wire. It needs a DEDICATED switched 12volts...this is what you need to clarify. Yes, you need to run a new wire (usually). THere are other options, butfor now, lets get the car running according tot he MSD instructions...

This is what's confusing - when you say switched 12 volts, do you mean when the key is in the start position, or the run position?

 

[BarnStang]

Both. I usually put it on the ACC lead, that way it's there in either position of the ign switch. You need to get away fom the factory wiring. Sorry if it was confusing. My fault.

 

[wahoo23]

Both. I usually put it on the ACC lead, that way it's there in either position of the ign switch. You need to get away fom the factory wiring. Sorry if it was confusing. My fault.

Which wire is the ACC coming out of the ignition? Or is there an easier place to pick it up?

 

[BarnStang]

According to the picture on cjponyparts.com, the 67 ignsw should have a threaded post coming out the back of the switch. This is the ACC feed. If it's a 68 switch the picture shows no post. Will need to dig into a 68 wiring diagram to get the wire color code for the ACC feed.
You can also just wire up a toggle switch hidden undr the dash.

 

[wahoo23]

According to the picture on cjponyparts.com, the 67 ignsw should have a threaded post coming out the back of the switch. This is the ACC feed. If it's a 68 switch the picture shows no post. Will need to dig into a 68 wiring diagram to get the wire color code for the ACC feed.

My ignition switch has the post. I'll connect to that and report back. Thanks for all of your help.

 

[Rusty67]

Pull a spark plug and crank it to check to make sure spark is actually happening at the plugs.

 

[jcode68]

THe MSD red switched 12v wire should not be connected to the factory red w/green strip wire. It needs a DEDICATED switched 12volts...this is what you need to clarify. Yes, you need to run a new wire (usually). THere are other options, butfor now, lets get the car running according tot he MSD instructions...

I tapped into this red wire with green stripe on the 67 I did the install on a couple weeks ago and it worked fine. It is only live when the key is on and was getting full juice (12+ volts). Don't want to confuse wahoo23 since he seems like he has a plan to use the threaded post (I didn't know that was for switched power or would have used that as well) but did want to repply about the red/green wire being switched.

 

[BarnStang]

THe red w green strip wire is still the resistance wire. It can work. And a lot of people use it, but it's not what MSD wants you to do with their box. THey want a solid 12v switched line. What's odd is that if he was using that wire to supply the MSD box, why would it not work in the Start posistion, unless the brown wire was off the solinoid or cut somewhere. The pink and brown meet at a connector then it becomes red w/grn running accross the intake to the coil.

 

[jcode68]

THe red w green strip wire is still the resistance wire. It can work. And a lot of people use it, but it's not what MSD wants you to do with their box. THey want a solid 12v switched line. What's odd is that if he was using that wire to supply the MSD box, why would it not work in the Start posistion, unless the brown wire was off the solinoid or cut somewhere. The pink and brown meet at a connector then it becomes red w/grn running accross the intake to the coil.

Ok, this makes sense to me now. I tapped the wire 1 inch off the switch, so there is virtually zero resistance and the reason I was getting the same 12+ volts as straight from the battery. If he was using the same wire, it could have been further downstream carrying more resistance and not supplying the full 12 volts. At this point, it should be clear how this needs to be connected and the car should start & run. Looking forward to the next post from wahoo23 to see where he is at!

 

[wahoo23]

Tonight, I connected the red wire (from the MSD) to the ACC post on the back of the ignition switch. No change. Car still does not start with the key, but starts when I jump the solenoid with the key in the run position.

 

[Rusty67]

If you are jumping the positive terminal to the S terminal and it starts but when you turn the key it does not start then you might want to test the wire the connects to the S terminal when you turn the key to see if you are geting any voltage at all at the S wire. If you don't get any voltage at that wire then you should trace it back to the ignition switch and find out where the loss is occouring. You also might want to check the voltage at the switch to see if it is puting voltage out at the switch. Double check all your fuses with a tester, some times they are blown but it is hard to tell visually.

 

[bnickel]

maybe i missed it but have you changed out the ignition switch? every time i've ever had the problem you describe it has been a bad ignition switch.

 

[wahoo23]

maybe i missed it but have you changed out the ignition switch? every time i've ever had the problem you describe it has been a bad ignition switch.

Yes, the ignition switch is a week old.

 

[wahoo23]

If you are jumping the positive terminal to the S terminal and it starts but when you turn the key it does not start then you might want to test the wire the connects to the S terminal when you turn the key to see if you are geting any voltage at all at the S wire. If you don't get any voltage at that wire then you should trace it back to the ignition switch and find out where the loss is occouring. You also might want to check the voltage at the switch to see if it is puting voltage out at the switch. Double check all your fuses with a tester, some times they are blown but it is hard to tell visually.

Which terminal is the S terminal? When I jump across the starter, I jump from the hot side to the large post, which the starter is connected to. I did check voltage at the switch, and saw no problems. No fuses are blown.

 

[Rusty67]

The starter motor relay should have 4 terminals on it. From left to right it should be:
Hot from battery
Starter
Ignition
To the Starter

I might have switched the middle two but if they aren't hooked up or are hooked up backwards, then you are definately going to have problems.

If you hook the middle two up backwards I think the engine just starts to crank as soon as you turn the key to the on possition but wont fire.

Also, the two middle terminals should have a small I or S above the posts to identify which is which.

 

[Tim65GT]

You will need the switched 12V wire from the Ignition Switch (red/green) tied to the red wire to the MSD box.

It seems you also need to have the "I" terminal from the solenoid (small one on the right) tied to the MSD red wire. This will give you 12V to the ign box while cranking.

Rusty67
The starter motor relay should have 4 terminals on it. From left to right it should be:
Hot from battery
Starter
Ignition
To the Starter

+1

 

[BarnStang]

Here's where I'm at on this:

I still have two problems:
1) I turn the key and...nothing. I hotwire by connecting both sides of the solenoid and it turns over. Both the solenoid and starter are now new. The problem seems like it's with the key / ignition itself. Wiring?

2) When I turn the car over, it still fails to start. I have verified that at TDC, the dizzy points to wire #1.

Anyone have any C4?

Now, starter, solenoid and ignition switch are all new. Car now turns over but still does not start. Do I need to start messing with the carb, even though Holley's instructions claim that there should be no adjustment necessary?

I understood from these previous posts that the starter is now engaging the flywheel and turning the engine over with the key in the start pos. All ignition problems aside. Is this still accurate? If you are jumping the solinoid from one LARGE post to the other LARGE post, then we still have a different problem. Rusty has it right, looking at the solinoid, going left to right. When you put the ign switch in the Start position, the wire on the S post (small post on the left) should have 12v on it to key the solinoid and send batt voltage from the batt post to the starter post. It will 12v in the start pos ONLY.
Terms to keep everyone clear
Crank-starter motor turns the engine over
Start-engine is running on it's own.

Instead of connecting the two large posts together, you can short the batt post to the "S" post to engage the solinoid. Let the solinoid do the work of transfering high current to the starter.

For your MSD feed jcode68 has a better idea. You "can" splice your switched hot lead for the MSD box at the switch before it becomes the pink resister wire.

I have not run into this, but Tim65GT is right that you will need to tie the "I" post on the solinoid to your red MSD wire. I can't remember ever having to do this, but it seems like you would have to, to get power to the MSD box in the Start pos too...

So let us know where you are with all that.

 

[wahoo23]

Tonight, I connected the red MSD wire to the I terminal of the solenoid. The red MSD wire is also connected to the ACC post of the ignition switch. It now fires right up. I'm a little confused why this would work - shoudn't the coil be getting power in the start position with the ACC connection?

 

[BarnStang]

No, here is the deal, in the traditional circuit (no MSD) there had to be a design to limit the current to the points in the RUN pos, but provide non current limited 12v to the coil on cold start. THey did this by using the solinoid. Look at the diagrams we have sent. It's hard to make out, but the "I" post wire joins the Red w/grn wire right at one of the plugs AFTER the pink resistance wire. When you hit Start, the solinoid does two things, it colses contacts between the batt post and the starter post AND closes contact between the batt post AND the "I" post. So, withe the key in the start pos, 12v flows from the solinoid, out the "I" post, back to the plug where it joins the red w/grn wire and flows out to the coil. When the car starts, you release the key to the RUN posistion, and the solinoid disengages, the 12v is cut off from the starter AND from the "I" post, and current flows from the switch through the pink resistance wire, to the plug where the two wires join, and out the red /grn wire to the coil. THat means that if you pull the brown wire off the "I" post, you will see the 7-9 volts coming from the ign switch via the pink resistance wire-cause they are connected. This is why you cannot use that wire for an electric choke feed, cause it never gets the coil hot enough. It's pretty useless except to send 12v OUT in the Start position.