Fuel New fuel pump no start

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
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89 fuel woes
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fun331
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Today at 2:34 PMNew
Hope you don't mind if I hit you again but I've been searching low fuel pressure and I keep hitting your replies. Makes me feel less guilty about reaching out. Plus it was good of you to help me with my fuel crossover issue.
I had a fuel pump failure a few months ago. No biggie I've replaced the stock one before as I've had my car for 21 years. I put a walbro 155 lph in about 10 years ago. It started making extra noise for about a week, then it made bad noise for a few days, then the car died as it was idling (warm-5 minute drive). Turn the key and zero noise from the pump. I let it sit overnight and went back the next day and it started and got me the 5 minutes home and then it was done. I never tested it (I still have it), I just bought another Walbro 155 and put it in. Replaced the fuel filter while I was under there as well; used Ford Motorsport. So when I go to start it, it won't light. Rolls over fine but no fire. Now I have an SCT switch chip and I tried switching the position from the stock one to position 1 which is only like 5% more fuel on my tune and it did start and move around in my yard a bit but there was no power under your foot. She didn't want to move around quick or spin the tires (dirt driveway, 4.30 gears). turned it off to see if it would start under the stock setting and no dice. Tried the first position on the chip and the fuel pump ran 100% with the ignition key in the KOEO position. It did that for all 4 of the SCT chip positions but not the stock one; stock position was the normal short fuel pump prime. So now I'm thinking my chip has failed. So when the fuel pump is running 100% and the engine is off I depressed the schraeder valve to check for fuel flow. There's flow there ( you can hear the pump run ), but it didn't squirt out. 40 PSI should shoot it to the fender right; it was more of running on my plug wires. A decent flow of fuel but not high pressure. So I talked to the dynojet guy who burned my chip and he told me to remove it and go back to stock. Made sense and easy to do. Still no start and fuel pump sounds as it should when the key is in the KOEO position. So it wasn't the chip and it could be possible that the chip was detecting the lack of pressure and cycling the pump to make up for it. So roll it over and no start, check the valve and there's some fuel there.

Now it's possible I messed something up when I did the install but the positive and negative ends are a different size so you can't run the pump backwards. The sock is on and the pump is screwed back in the bracket so it's in the right position in the tank. There's between 1/4 and 3/8 showing on the fuel gauge as I put about 6 gallons of fuel in so the pickup would be submerged. The fuel lines are two different diameters so it'd be hard to mess that up when you hook them to the pump. I used the new clamps and gaskets, the plastic end plugs from the pump are out and on my counter. I checked the fuel filter and it's on in the right direction. My next move is taking the vacuum line off my Holley adjustable fuel pressure regulator to see if that bumps up the pressure. I know I need a fuel pressure gauge and I just ordered one. After that I'll pull my new fuel filter to see if I can blow some air through it. Really don't want to drain and drop that tank as it's snowy and cold on the fingers in your driveway in Nova Scotia but I'm wondering if my new pump is bad. You know if I can check the fuel pump health some way other than removing it. Are there any terminals in the computer harness I can check to get the pump voltage? I'm pretty sure I have continuity. Any ideas? It'd be great if it was something stupid I did/missed. Thanks again for your help.
 
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fun331

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So this thread got all mixed up because I posted it as a conversation instead of a regular post. I'll try and fix it by copying the text here.

Thanks for the help sure love to get it in out of the snow. Forgot to mention that I pulled a plug from each side (1&8) and they were both dry of fuel. Nice kind of light brown color but definitely no fuel residue.

Went through a few of the steps on the cranks but won't start list. I was pretty sure I had spark and air but the ether trick will tell you for sure so I bought a can, broke the intake tract at the throttle body, gave a 2 second squirt, and closed it up again. Started on the third crank like it always does and sounded like her old self; for about a second. It's not spark or air, it's fuel; good to know. Went over the vacuum lines and they look good but there could be a crack somewhere. My vacuum system is pretty simple and I think low vacuum to the fuel regulator should make it rich? Next move is to remove my new fuel filter and see if I can blow through it. Maybe it's defective, but that's a stretch. It's on in the right direction. My fuel gauge is in, I just have to go get it. When I have it I'll do the run your fuel pump trick through the EEC test port that they have step #3 of the link.

So the fuel gauge they got me is for a carbed car, only goes to 15 PSI. Yay.

Do you have a thread for this adventure? Link?

Well General I'm not too sure I know what you're asking me there, there are no threads except my posts here as far as I know, but feel free to educate me.
So I did a few things since I'm without a gauge. I pulled my vacuum line off my Holley adjustable fuel pressure regulator, plugged the line, and wound her over. No difference but I did notice liquid (fuel?) in the vacuum line when I removed it. Not a lot but it's probably fuel (it smells like fuel anyway). Dug around my old parts and found my stock regulator and I'll put that on tomorrow.
Did some digging and found out that the adapter to put a fuel gauge into your schrader valve is a pipe fitting, usually brass, and is a 1/8 NPT female to 1/16 NPT male. I called around and found a shop that has them. So I'm going to order the Automotive fuel gauge off Americanmuscle.com and put it on but before I do that I'll swap out my fuel pressure regulator to see if it's the problem. If it's not the problem then I'll order a 155LPH pump too.

I think your on the right track with the regulator, fuel in the vacuum line is a sign of a bad regulator.as for using a fuel pressure gauge, use it to check fuel pressure, don't leave it on, it will crack/break off and you will go down in flames.
Now in the future post in the forums so others can help. No one else can see these posts here, it for private messages.
 

fun331

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Since I made a mess of this by posting it in the wrong place, I might as well finish it off in the hopes that it helps someone else out. I swapped my stock regulator for the adjustable Holley and primed her with the key a few times. Got out and depressed the schrader valve and lots more fuel pressure there. Wound her over a few times and no fire, not even trying to catch. I thought there's no way this thing shouldn't be running with that kind of pressure, what can I do? We know she'll run on ether so I gave her a good shot at the throttle body. Started right up. I'm thinking she'll die after a second or two but she kept going. Gave her a few shots of gas and she's definitely running on fuel. Drove around the yard and lots of power. Still waiting on a fuel gauge, but pretty sure it's at the stock pressure setting.

I still have a few questions though.
Did my fuel pump failing take out my adjustable regulator or was I lucky enough to have both fail at the same time?
Why wouldn't she start with fuel pressure without the ether? So glad to know that trick though.
 

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
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If you read through the checklist you will find the answers to your questions, these efi systems are not complicated you just have to be methodical, there are several books about efi systems, find one ford related that covers the eec-IV efi system.
 

jrichker

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Since I made a mess of this by posting it in the wrong place, I might as well finish it off in the hopes that it helps someone else out. I swapped my stock regulator for the adjustable Holley and primed her with the key a few times. Got out and depressed the schrader valve and lots more fuel pressure there. Wound her over a few times and no fire, not even trying to catch. I thought there's no way this thing shouldn't be running with that kind of pressure, what can I do? We know she'll run on ether so I gave her a good shot at the throttle body. Started right up. I'm thinking she'll die after a second or two but she kept going. Gave her a few shots of gas and she's definitely running on fuel. Drove around the yard and lots of power. Still waiting on a fuel gauge, but pretty sure it's at the stock pressure setting.

I still have a few questions though.
Did my fuel pump failing take out my adjustable regulator or was I lucky enough to have both fail at the same time?
Why wouldn't she start with fuel pressure without the ether? So glad to know that trick though.
Here's a book that will get you started with how the Ford electronic engine control or "computer" works.

Ford Fuel Injection & Electronic Engine Control 1988-1993 by Charles Probst :ISBN 0-8376-0301-3.

It's about $25-$50 from Borders.com see http://www.amazon.com/ . Select books and then select search. Use the ISBN number (without dashes or spaces) to do a search. Try searching using M-1832-Z1 instead of the ISBN number if you don’t get any positive results. You may only be able to find a used one, since the book is as old as the cars it covers. Or you order it from your Ford dealer as SVO part no. M-1832-Z1.


Use the ISBN number and your local library can get you a loaner copy for free. Only thing is you are limited to keeping the book for two weeks. It is very good, and I found it to be very helpful.
 
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fun331

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Thanks for the tip on the book, ordered a copy for myself. I'll brush up over the winter. Just glad she's put away instead of sitting in the snow.
 

Blown88GT

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I still have a few questions though.
1. Did my fuel pump failing take out my adjustable regulator or was I lucky enough to have both fail at the same time?
2. Why wouldn't she start with fuel pressure without the ether? So glad to know that trick though.
1. The new pump could have killed the weak FPR but can't say for sure.
2. Engine flooded. By holding pedal to floor tells ECU it's flooded & stop opening injectors until engine starts.

Stock fuel pressure is 39 psi. The water supply in your house is about 50 psi. Put that through a little tiny hole & watch it squirt across the room.
 

fun331

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Thanks for the tip on a flooded engine; I didn't know that one worked on EFI. I'm pretty sure it wasn't flooded as I didn't wind her over a lot and never any smell of gas in the car, but I didn't pull a plug to make sure. I did get her starting better but it requires a blip of throttle to do it. It never used to but I haven't been using it much the past couple of years due to the fast idle which was the cruise cable (fixed; 800 RPM idle is sweet). I had a solid month this summer with her on the road between my center force clutch failure and my fuel woes. It worked well, zero issues until the fuel pump died. I know there's a lot of things it could be but I was through the fast idle checklist with my idle issues before so I'm pretty sure things like salt and pepper connections are good. I cleaned my IAC at that time but I'll check it again. It seems like it isn't getting enough air at startup so blipping the throttle helps. It started fine the month I drove it. Turn the key, hear the pump, winds 3 times, catches and tacks up to 1200, drops to 800 after a bit. I'm thinking either the IAC is going away or she's suddenly cranky over the extra cubes. I seem to remember in the old "Ask Bernie" column in MM&FF that he advised readers to drill a hole in their throttle blade to help strokers on startup. Now I'm not saying that I want to drill my Holley 70 MM, just thinking it might be air. Until I put a fuel pressure gauge on it I'm just guessing though. I'd really like a gauge with a hose on it though, anyone know if this one is accurate www.innova.com/en-US/Product/Detail/3640?r=0.02798864033437599 ? I can get it locally.
 
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jrichker

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Fuel pressure gauge adapter fittings:
http://www.holley.com/products.asp?product=17945NOS AN 4 to 1/16” pipe
http://www.holley.com/products.asp?product=16785NOS 1/16” male pipe to 1/8” female pipe

Or
See http://www.autometer.com/cat_accessorieslist.aspx?pid=10

I made my own pressure gauge and holder. I bought the NOS or Autometer adapter that you screw into the place on the fuel line where the schrader valve goes. You have to remove the Schrader valve, but save it, since you will reuse it. I ran a piece of SS (stainless steel) braided hose to a 1/8” pipe brass tee fitting that I mounted on the fender well by the MAF. I made a mount bracket out of aluminum angle I got from Home depot and bolted it to the fender well. Then I mounted the brass tee to it with some machine screws and a plate. I sandwiched the brass tee between the aluminum angle and a flat piece of aluminum that I trimmed off the extra aluminum angle. Three screws laid out in a triangle pattern go through both pieces of aluminum to clamp the tee in place. Put the Schrader valve in the spare port of the brass tee. I used a cheap industrial gauge from MSC Direct (http://www1.mscdirect.com/ P/N 56468499). It works great and was cheaper than (less than $8) anything Summit had.

If you look through the MSC Direct catalog, you can find any type of gauge you want, including liquid filled. You only need a liquid filled gauge if you mount it directly on the engine. The liquid filling dampens out the vibrations. .However there are a couple of people who have had nasty engine fires when the gauge or the fuel injector rail broke due to vibration because of the gauge directly mounted on the fuel injector rail.

You can buy the Autometer Stainless Steel braided hose for like $60. Or a local shop that makes hydraulic hose assemblies can make it for you at a cheaper price. Ordinary low pressure hydraulic hose can be used in place of the Stainless Steel braided hose, the Stainless Steel braided hose just looks nice. I got mine for $4 at a place that sells industrial and military surplus parts of all kinds. The Stainless Steel braided hose goes for about $4+ a foot and the fittings are probably about $6-$10 each. You can make your own and save some $$$, the shops may have a setup or labor charge to fabricate the hose assembly.


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Safety device to prevent major fuel loss in the event of a failure of the hose, fittings or gauge...

attachments\596576
 
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fun331

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That fuel gauge looks great, I like the fact it's off the fuel line and mounted to the inner fender. Thanks for the advice on liquid filled gauges as I live where it freezes four months of the year and the car sits in an unheated garage. I won't need one with your setup. I used to have a friend who owned his shop and would loan me his Snap-on fuel gauge. The beauty of it was the rubber extension as you could run it out under your hood on the passenger side. That let you see the gauge when you drove the car. Now not down the highway but you could get a few hard hits in first and second and watch your fuel pressure at the same time. Pull over and adjust the FPR until she holds 40 PSI. I know you can blip the throttle and watch the gauge with the car not moving but I don't know if that's as accurate as there's no load on the engine. Sure seems simpler though.