New member/ Noisy flywheel?

[Cool Wheels]

Hi all. I'm proud to be the owner and restorer (ongoing) of a 75 Mustang II 302 V8. Over the next few months I will be mostly working on the body and accessorizing the look but have some suspension work to tackle first.

Something more imminent and frustrating is a noise I've been getting from what I think to be the flywheel/bellhousing area. I've chewed up 3 starter drive gears over the past 5-6 years and think this is due to an improper spacing between my starter and flywheel. There are no shims available for my setup (C4 and 302). Recently I'm trying to restrict the action of the drive mechanism with a small washer, preventing the full extension of the gear into the flywheel. So I'm pretty much constantly screwing around with reman parts to try to solve the problem

Recently I had to renew the drive mechanism (again) and noted that, after reinstalling the starter, the noise that has gotten worse. It sounds like a metallic chatter, like running your finger over a comb, but more metallic and much louder. It only seems to occur intermittantly and usually when accelerating from a stop. It does occur during gentle and highway speed acceleration as well.

Because I've replaced so many starter pieces that tend to get chewed up and metal fragments are thrown into the bellhousing, I think the cause is due to junk metal fragments getting caught in something in there. Problem is, I don't know what exists inside this mysterious metal bell shape, obscured by the flywheel from sight. Could there be a piece of metal I missed caught back there? What's behind the flywheel? Is it a sealed case or is there a possibility something could get beyond reach, or even damage something sensitive? If so how do I get it out? It's pretty tight for fingers.

I know I'm just anouther amateur with a desparate cry into the wind. I'm sure you've heard it before and many times. But maybe someone has seen this before or has enough knowledge of this that they could shed some light - and take me one step closer to completion of my project.

 

[77sleeper]

do a search for starters in this forum, it is a common problem, matter of fact I have a new spare in my trunk as we speak

BTW welcome to the forum

 

[COBRAIIW]

Use washers to shim your starter.between the starter mounting ears and the bell. sometimes two on each bolt,sometimes one on each bolt.also sounds like the starter cone is coming in contact with the flywheel,I've had this happen.What I did was to grind a little off the cone of the starter.Make sure your starter is fully into the plate it mounts to,and hasn't bent it.this could throw off the proper parallel position.
Good luck,I hope this helps a little.

 

[Power Surge]

Are you sure your car has the metal plate that goes between the engine and trans? I dunno about you other guys with starter issues. I've owned over 50 Fords, and almost a dozen IIs and never had a problem like that with a Ford starter .

 

[bennettracing]

that's because ford rocks...duh!

 

[zwhitr]

I installed a new PMGR 10 tooth starter like on the newer stangs tiny powerful and sounds like a little motor reving up than a aftermarket II starter

lester 3205 I love starting my car now.!!

 

[THE COBRAMAN]

Are you sure your car has the metal plate that goes between the engine and trans? I dunno about you other guys with starter issues. I've owned over 50 Fords, and almost a dozen IIs and never had a problem like that with a Ford starter .

I have to agree. Haven't owned 50, but never had a problem with starter hanging/grinding on a Ford. Usual problem is the junky chain store "reman" starters. Find a good starter/alternator rebuilder and have them go through it. Most medium-size cities and larger have at least one rebuilder.

Oh yeah, are you getting reman drives, or new ones? Many sold at the afore-mentioned chain stores are remans.

 

[rufus]

The only problem I've ever seen with starters was in my 77'.
Half way thru the year, ford decided to change the starter design.
I bought the car with a bad starter and replacerd it with an identical replacement. Then a few months later I chewed up the flywheel ring gear and starter pinion gear. When I went to ford to order a ring gear, I had them match up the part numbers and found that the people that I bought the car off of actually put the earlier starter in the car when it needed the later model.

Taht may or may not be your problem but if you could get the numbers off the ring gear and then go to ford and find out which starter you need. That should help you out.

good luck.

 

[Wart]

Only starter problem I had was with the 427.

For some reason it didn't want to turn the engine in the winter.

 

[Cool Wheels]

Thanks for all the feedback.

Rufus, where would I find the number for my ringgear? Would it be somewhere on the transmission?

Cobra IIW, would shimming the starter make it open to the possibility of shearing off the mounting bolts with bumps from the road and the torque applied during starting? I've thought of doing that too.

My starter has a "cup" that fits into a "cup" on the bellhousing. So I'm not sure where a factory spacer would sit. There is a metal plate between the engine and bell but it has a hole cut out where the starter fits in. The starter bolts right onto the bell.

My old man, who's kind of an old farmer type, did a lot of work on the car with me and I wonder if he did one of his special mods on the thing...crazy old guy; love him though.

I don't have access to a rebuider shop as I live in a pretty small town (pop 10,000).

It turns out that I might need to go get a new starter anyhow. I opened it up to do something and lost my grip. All the bushes fell out and I'm not sure if I put them back in right. I've put it back together a few times and tried the no load test. It just kinda makes this pathetic squeeling sound and the ground wire gets really hot. So I'm going to tape up the positive coil wires to make sure they aren't shorting out. I have a couple more ideas but if they don't work I'm just going to go get a new starter.

The moral is: You learn faster by doing a thing but you save money and do it better by studying it first

Someone was saying to go with a genuine Ford part and someone else mentioned a PMGR starter. Which one is better/which is more likely to solve my problem? Is there a chance that Ford would sell me a reman part if I don't ask for the official one?

 

[zwhitr]

Thanks for all the feedback.

Rufus, where would I find the number for my ringgear? Would it be somewhere on the transmission?

Cobra IIW, would shimming the starter make it open to the possibility of shearing off the mounting bolts with bumps from the road and the torque applied during starting? I've thought of doing that too.

My starter has a "cup" that fits into a "cup" on the bellhousing. So I'm not sure where a factory spacer would sit. There is a metal plate between the engine and bell but it has a hole cut out where the starter fits in. The starter bolts right onto the bell.

My old man, who's kind of an old farmer type, did a lot of work on the car with me and I wonder if he did one of his special mods on the thing...crazy old guy; love him though.

I don't have access to a rebuider shop as I live in a pretty small town (pop 10,000).

It turns out that I might need to go get a new starter anyhow. I opened it up to do something and lost my grip. All the bushes fell out and I'm not sure if I put them back in right. I've put it back together a few times and tried the no load test. It just kinda makes this pathetic squeeling sound and the ground wire gets really hot. So I'm going to tape up the positive coil wires to make sure they aren't shorting out. I have a couple more ideas but if they don't work I'm just going to go get a new starter.

The moral is: You learn faster by doing a thing but you save money and do it better by studying it first

Someone was saying to go with a genuine Ford part and someone else mentioned a PMGR starter. Which one is better/which is more likely to solve my problem? Is there a chance that Ford would sell me a reman part if I don't ask for the official one?

NOS or an original rebuilt you can get kits and rebuild them your self the starter is pretty much the same its the design of the nose cone differs.

I have owned mine for 15 years I would replace starter drives then starter and I'm on my 3 flywheel now--- but the PMGR works and sounds great I used to hate to start my car if any body was around. I kept it tuned up very well so it would start immediately.

Don't think shimming will do it for you.

try this pull the starter paint the bendix remount and turn over a few times then check the wear pattern.



ps I remember you said it was noisy while driving check all four torque convertor nuts loose bolts make a heck of a racket usually decelerating and back on again.

Good luck

 

[Cool Wheels]

yeah, my starter is pretty much fried. I can't get it to work with the no load test. just sparks and the wires get really hot.

so, I'm going to try to find one of the Permenant Magnet Gear Reduction Starters through one of my local parts outlets. Hope that I can straighten out the clearance-to-flywheel problems or I'll have to delay from ordering.

Today is a new day! with plenty of time after to work on cars (in 4 feet of snow that keeps on falling!)

Thanks everyone.

 

[75stang302]

you can buy shimms for the starter at napa