Nwc T5 Woahs :[

pissedoff92

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So recently I installed a non world class t5 in my 92 because the factory tranny has some sore of issue (havent had the time to investigate). So I had this old non world class t5 given to me. I finally got the car running and its 90% together now. Now first off this tranny doesnt have a nuetral safety switch so im getting a code 67 ok no biggie. But I cant start the car with the key. I have to jump the solonoid and it fires right up. I think thats due to the NSS but I have no idea. Next, car running in nuetral or any gear I let up the clutch and it makes a terrible swirling sound. Not like a ferocious grind but a loud swirling sound. It has a stainless bearing retainer on it that was on there previously. My first thought was throwout bearing but I litterally pulled the car in my garage 3 months ago with the junk tranny and it didnt make that sound. Now The other thing I was thnking was I have dex/merc in this thing. When I cleaned it up it seemed to previously have gear lube in it. ive heard tons of different opinions on what it takes for fluid. and its either gear lube or dex/merc. I have no idea what year the tranny is or what it came from but I know its a non world class t5. any help would be awesome. also if anyone reccomends gear lube what weight?
 
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ID89GT

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Suppose to take the Mercon. The fine bearings need the auto tranny fluid to be able to get in there, whereas the gear oil is very thick and hard to reach the small needle bearings.
 

rd

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Yep, the lack of a neutral safety switch is the reason for the no start. You can just jump the wires temporarily, but then it will start in any gear anytime. Afik, all T5's are configured for a nss. Also does the back up lights. My 83 Jeep had a nwc and it had one.
 

Noobz347

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Mercon

Did you reuse the TOB on this install? If you did well... you won't do that again.

In my recollection, the neutral safety switch doesn't stop the motor from turning over. It's the shift selector on Autos and the Clutch switch on manuals. All the NSS is good for on a T5 is enabling/disabling the KOER test. It's supposed to kick off cruise control if not in gear as well, but I've never had reason to test that theory. :O_o:

So for your starting problem, look at the clutch egagement and ignition switches.
 

pissedoff92

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Yes I re used the old TOB but It didnt have an issue 2 months prior when I pulled the car in the garage.....How come some t5's had gear lube in them? The way I understood it was that the only ones to have needle bearings were the world class t5's
 

Noobz347

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Yes I re used the old TOB but It didnt have an issue 2 months prior when I pulled the car in the garage.....How come some t5's had gear lube in them? The way I understood it was that the only ones to have needle bearings were the world class t5's
Honestly, I don't recall enough about the old T5s to say emphatically that they ALL take Mercon but I'll put a shout out to some folks who might.

Rick 91GT
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One or more of these guys should have a no kidding, "This is it" answer for you and should get the alert as they log on.
 

pissedoff92

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Hey thanks a bunch man. Like I said my original thought was TOB but Id like to be sure its not the tranny first by having the right fluid. If it is the TOB can I swap it out by taking out the trans and leaving the bellhousing installed? Any adverse effects if I dont fix it right away?
 

pissedoff92

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So my problem either lies within the TOB or theres surface rust on the mainshaft bearing from sitting bone dry of fluid for 10 years. Im hoping its the TOB. Driving it like that wont hurt anything will it? The clutch is due for a change next winter anyway and Ive never heard of a TOB grenading or anthing.
 

Noobz347

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So my problem either lies within the TOB or theres surface rust on the mainshaft bearing from sitting bone dry of fluid for 10 years. Im hoping its the TOB. Driving it like that wont hurt anything will it? The clutch is due for a change next winter anyway and Ive never heard of a TOB grenading or anthing.

LOL... TOBs grenade ALL the time. Many of us are OEM replacement zealots because they tend to hold up better than non-OEM pieces.

It's pretty common.
 

S&B

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noobz you tag me like I know stuff, I'm pretty much useless ask my wife

thanks for believing i know stuff
 
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S&B

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wow you know me too well...

she knows where most of my tools are as well :nice:
 

5.0Droptop

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Borg Warner also provided many other gear ratios in NWC T-5’s to meet the needs of the application.

All the main shaft gears, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, ride on a solid output shaft with deep oil grooves to provide lubrication. The lower counter gears spin on straight cylindrical bearings with a thrust washer in front to provide support when under load.

All the synchronizer rings are made of solid bronze which are of different size than those found in a World-Class T-5.

It is because there is no bearing under each gear and the bronze synchro rings that the NWC T-5 use the heavier Dextron II. Since Dextron II is no longer available the engineers at TREMEC now recommend using straight 50w gear oil. The lighter Dextron III weight can be used but may effect shifting and wear.

Torque rating for the 2.95:1 NWC T-5 was 265ft/lbs. Four cylinder ratios are much lower due to the tooth count between gears.
 

Rick 91GT

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I've used the Mercon 3 since 2 has been discontinued with no major issues although I haven't pulled one apart to verify wear, I found the thicker gear oil to be too thick till you got a little heat into it...effected shifting.

To replace the TOB you basically need to pull the trans down out pf the way. Then you could reach into the bell and replace the TOB or pull the fork. I had used the Timkin tob which had the metal body. I've had 1 plastic body give me issues over the years but generally they r ok.
 

5.0Droptop

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I've used the Mercon 3 since 2 has been discontinued with no major issues although I haven't pulled one apart to verify wear, I found the thicker gear oil to be too thick till you got a little heat into it...effected shifting.

To replace the TOB you basically need to pull the trans down out pf the way. Then you could reach into the bell and replace the TOB or pull the fork. I had used the Timkin tob which had the metal body. I've had 1 plastic body give me issues over the years but generally they r ok.

Same here. I just wanted him to know that either fluid was acceptable.
 

5.0Droptop

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Did you verify that the input shaft pilot diameter was the same size as the previous one? Reason i ask is there are 2 sizes if you put the smaller shaft in the larger pilot bearing it will not keep the input shaft straight. This could result in some noise as well.
 

jrichker

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As already mentioned, the NSS doesn't have any affect on the starter circuit. It does affect the dumping of the engine running codes

NSS function
The computer wants to make sure the A/C is off due to the added load on the engine for the engine running tests. It also checks to see that the transmission is in Neutral and the clutch depressed (T5, T56, Tremec 3550 & TKO)). This prevents the diagnostics from being run when the car is driven. Key On Engine Running test mode takes the throttle control away from the driver for several tests. This could prove hazardous if the computer was jumpered into test mode and then driven.

The following is for 5 speed cars only.
The NSS code 67 can be bypassed for testing. You will need to temporarily ground computer pin 30 to the chassis. Computer pin 30 uses a Lt blue/yellow wire. Remove the passenger side kick panel and then remove the plastic cover from the computer wiring connector. Use a safety pin to probe the connector from the rear. Jumper the safety pin to the ground near the computer.
Be sure to remove the jumper BEFORE attempting to drive the car!!!

Here's some help with the no crank problem. Jump past the low voltage troubleshooter section and you'll find what you need starting at step 4.

No Crank checklist for 5.0 Mustangs

Revised 05-Oct-2010 to update Fluke references.

No crank. slow crank and stuck starter solenoid problems have the same root causes – low battery voltage and poor connections. For that reason, they are grouped together.
Use the same initial group of tests to find the root cause of both no crank and stuck solenoid problems.

Since some of the tests will bypass the safety interlocks, make sure that the car is in neutral and the parking brake is set. Becoming a pancake isn’t part of the repair process…


1.) Will the car start if it is jumped? Then clean battery terminals and check battery for low charge and dead cells. A good battery will measure 12-13 volts at full charge with the ignition switch in the Run position but without the engine running.
A voltmeter placed across the battery terminals should show a minimum of 9.5-10 volts when the ignition switch is turned to the Start position and the starter engages or tries to engage. Less than this will result in a clicking solenoid, or slow cranking (if it cranks at all) or a starter solenoid that sticks and welds the contacts together.

Most auto parts stores will check your battery for free. It does not have to be installed in the car to have it checked; you can carry it with you to the auto parts store.

The battery posts and inside of the battery post terminals should be scraped clean with a knife or battery post cleaner tool. This little trick will fix a surprising number of no start problems.

The clamp on with 2 bolts battery terminal ends are a known problem causer. Any place you see green on a copper wire is corrosion. Corrosion gets in the clamped joint and works its way up the wire under the insulation. Corroded connections do not conduct electricity well. Avoid them like the plague...

If the starter solenoid welds the contacts, then the starter will attempt to run anytime there is power in the battery. The cables and solenoid will get very hot, and may even start smoking. The temporary fix for a welded starter solenoid is to disconnect the battery and smack the back of the solenoid housing a sharp blow with a hammer. This may cause the contacts to unstick and work normally for a while.

A voltmeter is handy if you are familiar with how to use it to find bad connections. Measure the voltage drop across a connection while trying to start the car: more than .5 volts across a connection indicates a problem. The voltage drop tests need to be done while cranking the engine. It's the current flowing through a connection or wire that causes the voltage drop.

See http://assets.fluke.com/appnotes/automotive/beatbook.pdf for help for help troubleshooting voltage drops across connections and components. .



2.) Check the battery to engine block ground down near the oil filter, and the ground behind the engine to the firewall. All grounds should be clean and shiny. Use some sandpaper to clean them up.

3.) Jump the big terminals on the starter solenoid next to the battery with a screwdriver - watch out for the sparks! If the engine cranks, the starter and power wiring is good. The starter relay is also known as a starter solenoid.

The rest of the tech note only concerns no crank problems. If your problem was a stuck solenoid, go back to step 1.

4.) Then pull the small push on connector (small red/blue wire) off the starter solenoid (Looks like it is stuck on a screw). Then jump between the screw and the terminal that is connected to the battery. If it cranks, the relay is good and your problem is in the rest of the circuit.

5.) Remember to check the ignition switch, neutral safety switch on auto trans and the clutch safety switch on manual trans cars. If they are good, then you have wiring problems.

Typical start circuit...
Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds



6.) Pull the starter and take it to AutoZone or Pep Boys and have them test it. Starter fails test, then replace it. If you got this far, the starter is probably bad.


Starter solenoid wiring for 86-91 Mustang



Starter solenoid wiring 92-93 Mustang or earlier Mustang with upgraded high torque mini starter.


Electrical checks for the switches and starter solenoid

Remove the small red/blue wire from the starter solenoid. Use a screwdriver to bridge the connection from the battery positive connection on the starter solenoid to the small screw where the red/blue wire was connected. The starter should crank the engine. If it does not, the starter solenoid is defective or the battery lacks sufficient charge to crank the engine.

If the starter does crank the engine, the problem is in the clutch safety circuit (5 speed) or Neutral Sense Switch (auto trans) or ignition switch.


Typical start circuit...
Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds


You will need a voltmeter or test lamp for the rest of the checks. Connect one lead of the voltmeter or test lamp to ground. The other lead will connect to the item under test.
Look for 12 volts on the white/pink wire when the ignition switch is turned to the Start position. Check the ignition switch first.
No 12 volts, replace the ignition switch.

The next step will require you to push the clutch pedal to the floor (5 speed) or put the transmission in neutral (auto trans) while the ignition switch is turned to the Start position.
Good 12 volts, check the clutch safety switch (5 speed) or Neutral Sense Switch (auto trans) for good 12 volts on both sides of the switches. No 12 volts on both sides of the switch and the switches are defective or out of adjustment. Check the wiring for bad connections while you are at it.