PINGING visited - again...sorry this one is kinda long...

[mrclean33]

All,
I've been reading through the threads on engine pinging, and I've seen lots of incidents that are similar to mine, but nothing definitive...maybe ya'll can give me a hand...
08 GT, 4.6 3V/manual - first upgrade off stock was FRPP CAI and tune, along with an X-pipe, short throw shifter and chambered mufflers...I immediately felt it ran a little worse than stock...talked to the dealership that installed it, and they told me "the computer will learn, it'll get better"...NOT...Then I bought a Steeda CAI with an STC-III tuner, with a 93 tune (and an 87 tune so I could save some money with high gas prices)...Installed the Steeda kit, the 93 tune (already had 93 in the tank for many, many tanks) and voila...GT runs GREAT!!!...for a while...after about 1000 miles it started to run a little rough...looked the kit installation over and found some loose connections at the throttle body...resecured everything and GREAT!!...NOW...the engine has started to run a little rough, and after its good and warm, I get on it in 2, 3, and 4th gear and about 4K RPM, it starts pinging (rocks in a coffee can)...back out of it a little, it goes away...get back into it and there it is again...
Could a bad or weak coil pack, or a bad plug(s) cause these issues? It ran REALLY great after the Steeda Kit was first installed, and now (about 10 months later) not so great...rough running the last four or five months, and pinging noticed intermittently the last month or so...I'm not getting any engine codes...I've double and triple checked all the kit connections, and made sure I'm not leaking air anywhere (the best I know how)...I've pulled the coil plugs and cleaned and reseated them, but I'm kinda at a loss...I'm waiting on a call from Tech Reps at American Muscle (who sold me the CA kit), but I wanted to hear from the hands on guys...
So...any ideas or suggestions???
Thanx Much
Jim

 

[NastyStang113]

When did you install the kit? It sounds like a tune or octane issue. I'd recommend spending the $50-60 on a new tune from a reputable tuner like VMP or someone that can tune better than American Muscle. It'll be worth it. I'm willing to bet if you do so it'll fix your problem. If not, than you know the gas you're getting isn't 93 octane. Just curious, have you tried different gas stations? If not, try it. It won't cost you anything.

 

[o0Dan0o]

+1 on the gas, and I'd find a good local dyno tuner and get a full custom tune. How much has the weather changed in your area, that can cause it to, but not too likely.
Dan

 

[ski]

Agree with the others on trying different brands of gas wrt the pinging. It can also be caused by carbon build up inside the combustion chambers. Dumping a can or 2 of Seafoam into the tank will get rid of the carbon.
However, the rough running is being caused by something else, like possibly bad spark plugs and/or coils packs, which can also cause pinging. They may look ok, but they can be defective internally.
Restore everything back to stock. If the pinging and rough running persist, then bad plugs or coil packs may be the cause.
If you ever used any octane booster, then replace the plugs. They're fouled beyond repair.
Also, is it running rough at idle, POT, or WOT, or is it rough at all engine speeds?

 

[mrclean33]

Ski, (and all)
I'll give the different fuels a try. Here in South Texas I use Valero (which used to be Sigmor, then Diamond Shamrock several years ago). I've never heard of Seafoam, but I do know that carbon deposits can cause hotspots, so I'll look around and try that. The car only has 27000 miles on it, but anything is possible. I spoke with a "technical advisor" today from American Muscle (where I got my CAI and STC tuner/tunes), and he is telling me I should replace the stock plugs with some copper core plugs, that the platinums could be causing the pinging with the CAI. - ??? - I've looked everywhere (online - Jegs, Summit, etc.), and I don't see anything like that. For my engine, its always Autolite Evolution long reach platinum, either stock or one heat range cooler. I'm not the most savvy engine guy, but that sounds a little whack to me! I've never used any octane booster (don't believe you can really engineer a graded fuel to perform like a higher graded fuel), but I do use a bottle of FI cleaner about every third tank or so...could that be an issue?
Thanks for all your suggestions...I'll keep trying...
Jim

 

[SpartaPerformance]

+1 one of fuel..try other brands. Don't bother with plugs, that's not your problem. I say it's in the tune, if it's un locked try bringing back the timing 4 degrees in the mid range RPM and 2 degrees up top, this do 1st if possible being it will be a pain to keep trying different brands of fuel you'll never get a totally clean tank. Seafoam is awesome you can try it just to clean out your combustion chamber anyway but don't expect anything.

 

[ski]

Ski, (and all)
I'll give the different fuels a try. Here in South Texas I use Valero (which used to be Sigmor, then Diamond Shamrock several years ago). I've never heard of Seafoam, but I do know that carbon deposits can cause hotspots, so I'll look around and try that. The car only has 27000 miles on it, but anything is possible. I spoke with a "technical advisor" today from American Muscle (where I got my CAI and STC tuner/tunes), and he is telling me I should replace the stock plugs with some copper core plugs, that the platinums could be causing the pinging with the CAI. - ??? - I've looked everywhere (online - Jegs, Summit, etc.), and I don't see anything like that. For my engine, its always Autolite Evolution long reach platinum, either stock or one heat range cooler. I'm not the most savvy engine guy, but that sounds a little whack to me! I've never used any octane booster (don't believe you can really engineer a graded fuel to perform like a higher graded fuel), but I do use a bottle of FI cleaner about every third tank or so...could that be an issue?
Thanks for all your suggestions...I'll keep trying...
Jim

FI cleaner should not cause your problems.

 

[ski]

+1 one of fuel..try other brands. Don't bother with plugs, that's not your problem. I say it's in the tune, if it's un locked try bringing back the timing 4 degrees in the mid range RPM and 2 degrees up top, this do 1st if possible being it will be a pain to keep trying different brands of fuel you'll never get a totally clean tank. Seafoam is awesome you can try it just to clean out your combustion chamber anyway but don't expect anything.

Defective plugs and/or coil packs can definitely cause an engine to run rough. Also, an S197 GT owner on another forum eliminated a pinging problem by replacing the spark plugs.
Seafoam eliminated a pinging problem with my 05 S197 GT when it had only 17K miles on it.
Retarding the timing may help to eliminate pinging, but it's the last resort since it will definitely reduce the engine's power output and mpg's.

 

[NastyStang113]

I doubt the spark plugs are your problem with only a cai and tune. If so, than American Muscle needs to stop tuning cars. We all know they are mediocre when it comes to tuning but that's just reckless if they destroy plugs on a cai tune. LOL! How about filling it with 5 gallons of 100 octane and the rest 93 octane. See if that gets rid of the ping. If it doesn't, it might be worth it to pull a plug or two.

 

[mrclean33]

I've picked up the SeaFoam, just waiting to clear my tank to get a good mix, with some different fuel...don't know where to get 100 octane other than the airport for some 100LL (don't know that the engine would like Low Lead fuel, or that the local FBO would pump me some AvGas)...Does anyone know of plugs for the 4.6
3V other than the Motorcraft or Autolight longreach platinums? Or are those ones to stick to? I'm pricing coil packs (if I go that way), and does anyone have recommendations or reviews for these - MSD, Grannateli, Accel? Lots of questions I know, but I'm on a big learning curve for the GT...
NastyStang...if you don't mind me asking...What is it about American Muscle (as far as tuning goes) that you're against? Is that a general concensus of the Mustang community? Are there other operators that have had poor results with AM that was fixed with other companies tunes?
As always, thanx for your opinions and suggestions...
Jim

 

[GTeye]

I have been battling pinging issues with my 2008 GT as well.

I found 2 coils that were bad on mine, i replaced them and my pinging is I would say 90% gone. Every once in a blue moon I still hear a tiny bit at 4000-4100rpm.

Some things I found out about my 2008 GT.

Most 2008 GT's have a new head with 1 piece spark plugs so 05-07 plugs will not work.

I put Brisk Racing plugs in mine, bought them from lethal performance. They were a bit pricey but they work fine, idle is smooth.

For replacement coils, the useless dealer wouldn't replace them, I narrowed it down to 2 by swapping coils with a friends stang and testing for pinging. Once I foudn them I tested the voltage and they were spiking all over.

I decided not to go with replacement oem coils, mainly because I didn't want to go dealer to dealer and waste my time arguing and didn't want to hand them more of my money. I decided since I was going to SC next year anyway, some aftermarket performance coils wouldn't be the worst thing to have so I picked up some WeaponX COP's. Car runs really nicely after installing them. I can't prove it of course but I feel it's more responsive than even when I had my friends working OEM coils on.

One note, if you buy the weaponx coils, make sure you tell him if you have the new style 08 head with the 1 piece plugs. I believe you can tell this by just looking at your existing COP's, if the boots are brown you have the new heads if they are black you don't.

The new heads have the plugs 6mm deeper than the old heads so an adjustment was needed to make them properly lock on to the plug.

Anyway, I still get a little bit of pinging even after all of that but it's very rare now where it used to be every single time I hit 4k and up until 4100-4200rpm.

I'll get my car fully dyno tuned after I get the SC , that should hopefully take care of it once and for all.

Good luck, there is another 08 GT person floating around with the same issue... who knows.

 

[mrclean33]

two piece plugs??

Thanks for all the great information...but I don't understand the bit about two piece plugs?? I'm a professional aircraft mechanic/inspector, and have been doing my own vehicle maintenance for years, and two piece plugs is a new one on me! Do you mean the coil packs? I mean, I've been looking for replacement plugs as well, and I havent' seen anything like that...I'm just about ready to try plugs and coil packs, but this one's thrown me a little curve...
thanks,
Jim

 

[GTeye]

I'm referring to the plugs when I say 1/2 piece. The plugs from a 05-07 GT and a 08 (most 08) and 09 GT are 100% completely different. The thread count is different on them as well so you couldn't put one in the other (not without cross threading).

The 05-07 are a two piece plug, some people even call them 3 piece i believe.

I don't know technical terms for alot of this but the 05-07 plugs had problems where the plug would break off and leave the bottom half of the plug in the head. This was happening because the lower part of the plug seemed to be this smooth surface that would get locked in place. There are some lengthy TSB's out there explaining how to change plugs in the 05-07 GT's. For 05-07's you can buy 1 piece champion plugs as replacement for the two piece oem plugs, they are the only ones i know of who make a 1 piece for the 05-07.

Ford finally corrected this in 08 and went with a 1 piece plug and at the same time they put in a new head on the mustang. The new head accepts the new 1 piece plug and also I believe the plug sits deeper in ther the cylinder as well in the new design.

If you go to this page:
Spark Plugs : Lethal Performance, Performance parts for Ford Mustangs

It has pictures of the plugs, both 05-07 and 08+ brisk ones. Once you look at them you will see what I mean.

Kind of makes me wonder also if perhaps tuners need to revisit their existing tunes for the 08+ GT's, my car did it with a brenspeed and a tillman tune. Increased cop voltage plus a slightly colder plug is probably the reasoning it's gone away for me for the most part.

 

[GTeye]

Out of curiosity, where do you live?

I am in WA, the great green state and the land of awful gasoline, which I am sure contributes to the problem.

 

[mrclean33]

I live in South Texas...not too sure how that relates to gasoline quality, but we definately have high general heat and atmospheric humidity, which definately goes to robbing power...but that still doesn't cover engine miss...I'm on a heavy learning curve with this electronic engine control stuff, so I'm feel very apprehensive about spending money and taking "blind" stabs at fixes...my gut reaction is COPs and plugs, but that's just gut reaction...I'm gonna keep learning and trying...thanks for all the input...I greatly appreciate it...
Jim

 

[GTeye]

If you do figure it out, please shoot me a message on the forum or make a post here as I'd be greatly interested in the results of whatever you try.

Thanks,

 

[ski]

The plugs in the original S197 GT head are considered 2-piece because they have a smooth lower metal part(ground electrode shield) and a threaded upper metal part that are joined/fused together, instead of being machined from a single piece of metal. And the ground electrode shield sometimes gets stuck inside the cylinder head, and breaks off due to carbon build up between its OD and the ID of cylinder head orifice. In addition, the porcelain can also separate from the threaded metal section.

TSB 069-2008-1155 covers this problem.