Please Help 1988 5.0!

Trenton Mattison

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Jul 19, 2016
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I have a 1988 Foxbody. Driving to the gas station the car bucked and the "CEL" came on. Got home and hooked OBD1 Scan Tool up and only getting code "66" Mass Air Flow. The car will idle super rough and often die when first started but after the computer detects that there is a problem and the "CEL" comes on it runs fine. Lacks power but not to major extents. I have replaced MAF and checked IAC and Charge Temperature Sensor. I am lost as I have spent quite some time trying to fix! ANY HELP IS WELCOME.
 
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Davedacarpainter

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Post in the 1979-1995 subforum in the tech section.

This is just the place people come to say hey.

A moderator can get your post moved there, @Noobz347

@jrichker will be a very good person for you to get to know, he can help you through this.
 

jrichker

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Once a major code like 66 occurs, the computer goes into limp mode and it runs on a set of "safe" parameters with minimal sensor input. Limp mode results in reduced power and economy.


You must clear the codes anytime you replace any sensor.

How to clear codes.
Clear the computer codes by disconnecting the battery negative terminal and turn the headlights on. That clears the computer's memory of codes and the adaptive learning data it generates from sensors. Turn the headlights off and reconnect the all sensors including the MAF and anything else you may have disconnected. Then reconnect the battery negative cable.. This clears all spurious codes that may have been generated while troubleshooting problems. This does not fix the code problems, it just gives you a clean slate to start recording what the computer sees happening.

Run the car for at least 30 minutes of driving at various speeds and dump the codes again to assure that you have fixed the code problem or sensor problem



For 1988 models, only the California cars came with a MAF as standard equipment. If your car is not a California emissions equipment package vehicle, then someone did a MAF conversion.

Swapping the MAF sensors between different MAFs is a big no no. The MAF body and sensor are designed to match each other. Therefore you can't swap sensors between different part number MAF bodies and maintain proper calibration. The assembly is designed to match the computer’s internal program, and swapping a different MAF can upset the computer's calibration. In other words, your monster MAF probably won't match the calibration of your 5.0 Mustang computer.

The OEM Ford MAFs are not calibrated to injector size. The injector sizing is done in the computer’s internal programming. Aftermarket MAF’s “lie” to the computer in an attempt to fool the computer into changing the injector pulse on timing to match the increased airflow.

The exception to the above statements is if you have an aftermarket tuner system such as Moates Quarterhorse, Tweecer, or similar device. Then you can alter the computer's MAF transfer function table to match whatever MAF housing and sensor you have. The tuner device works in conjunction with a high quality Air/Fuel ratio meter so that you can tell what sort of air/fuel mixture you have a any given time.

The only other MAF that is a one for one swap for a 93 and earlier 5.0 Mustang is the 94-95 Mustang MAF.

94-95 Mustang GT MAF - $40-$100. It is 70 MM instead of the stock 55 MM on regular stangs built prior to 94. It uses a slip on duct on the side that goes to the throttle body and a 4 bolt flange on the other. You need a flange adapter to fit the stock slip on air ducting that goes to the air box. Wiring plugs right in with no changes. *1 *2

Once your replacement 70MM MAF is in place, disconnect the battery for about 10 minutes. When you reconnect the battery and start the engine, the computer will relearn the settings for the new MAF.

*1.) Metal flange adapter http://www.kustomz.com/cat3.html Buy the TR70 for $44.95. Or spend some time on eBay looking for one that may fit.

*2.) MAF & sensor interchange
The 94-95 Mustang 5.0 MAF & sensor is also found on:
1995-94 Mustang 3.8L F2VF-12B579-A2A,
1994-92 Crown Victoria 4.6L F2VF-12B579-A2A,
1995-94 Mustang, Mustang Cobra 5.0L F2VF-12B579-A2A,
1994-92 Town Car 4.6L F2VF-12B579-A2A,
1994-92 Grand Marquis 4.6L F2VF-12B579-A2A,
Evidently the –A1A, -A2A, AA, etc. on the end of the part number is a minor variant that did not change the operating specs. You should be able to ignore it and have everything work good.





Code 66 or 157 MAF below minimum test voltage.

Revised 10-Feb-2014 to add 95-95 Mustang code 157 and 94-95 ECC diagram

Insufficient or no voltage from MAF. Dirty MAF element, bad MAF, bad MAF wiring, missing power to MAF. Check for missing +12 volts on this circuit. Check the two links for a wiring diagram to help you find the red wire for computer power relay switched +12 volts. Check for 12 volts between the red and black wires on the MAF heater (usually pins A & B). while the connector is plugged into the MAF. This may require the use of a couple of safety pins to probe the MAF connector from the back side of it.

Computer connector for 88-93 5.0 Mustangs
a9x-series-computer-connector-wire-side-view-gif.71316

Diagrams courtesy of Tmoss and Stang&2Birds

ECC Diagram for 88-90 5.0 Mustangs
88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif


ECC Diagram for 91-93 5.0 Mustangs
91-93_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif


94-95 Diagram for 94-95 5.0 Mustangs

94-95_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif


There are three parts in a MAF: the heater, the sensor element and the amplifier. The heater heats the MAF sensor element causing the resistance to increase. The amplifier buffers the MAF output signal and has a resistor that is laser trimmed to provide an output range compatible with the computer's load tables. Changes in RPM causes the airflow to increase or decrease, changing the voltage output.. The increase of air across the MAF sensor element causes it to cool, allowing more voltage to pass and telling the computer to increase the fuel flow. A decrease in airflow causes the MAF sensor element to get warmer, decreasing the voltage and reducing the fuel flow.

The MAF element is secured by 2 screws & has 1 wiring connector. To clean the element, remove it from the MAF housing and spray it down with electronic parts cleaner or non-inflammable brake parts cleaner (same stuff in a bigger can and cheaper too).

89-90 Model cars: Measure the MAF output at pins C & D on the MAF connector (dark blue/orange and tan/light blue) or at pins 50 & 9 on the computer. Be sure to measure the sensor output by measuring across the pins and not between the pins and ground.

91-95 Model cars: Measure the MAF output at pins C & D on the MAF connector light blue/red and tan/light blue) or at pins 50 & 9 on the computer. Be sure to measure the sensor output by measuring across the pins and not between the pins and ground.


At idle = approximately .6 volt
20 MPH = approximately 1.10 volt
40 MPH = approximately 1.70 volt
60 MPH = approximately 2.10 volt

Check the resistance of the MAF signal wiring. Pin D on the MAF and pin 50 on the computer (dark blue/orange wire) should be less than 2 ohms. Pin C on the MAF and pin 9 on the computer (tan/light blue wire) should be less than 2 ohms.

There should be a minimum of 10K ohms between either pin C or D on the MAF wiring connector and pins A or B. Make your measurement with the MAF disconnected from the wiring harness.

Actually MAF pins C & D float with reference to ground. The signal output of the MAF is a differential amplifier setup. Pins C & D both carry the output signal, but one pin's output is inverted from the other. The difference in signal between C & D is what the computer's input circuit is looking for. The difference in the two outputs helps cancel out electrical noise generated by the ignition system and other components. Since the noise will be of the same polarity, wave shape and magnitude, the differential input of the computer electronically subtracts it from the signal. Then it passes the signal on to an Analog to Digital converter section inside the computer's CPU chip.

See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host) for help on 88-95 wiring http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/

Ignition switch wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif

Fuel pump, alternator, ignition & A/C wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

Computer,. actuator & sensor wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Fuse panel layout
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/MustangFuseBox.gif

Vacuum routing
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangFoxFordVacuumDiagram.jpg
 

Trenton Mattison

New Member
Jul 19, 2016
9
0
1
23
Once a major code like 66 occurs, the computer goes into limp mode and it runs on a set of "safe" parameters with minimal sensor input. Limp mode results in reduced power and economy.


You must clear the codes anytime you replace any sensor.

How to clear codes.
Clear the computer codes by disconnecting the battery negative terminal and turn the headlights on. That clears the computer's memory of codes and the adaptive learning data it generates from sensors. Turn the headlights off and reconnect the all sensors including the MAF and anything else you may have disconnected. Then reconnect the battery negative cable.. This clears all spurious codes that may have been generated while troubleshooting problems. This does not fix the code problems, it just gives you a clean slate to start recording what the computer sees happening.

Run the car for at least 30 minutes of driving at various speeds and dump the codes again to assure that you have fixed the code problem or sensor problem



For 1988 models, only the California cars came with a MAF as standard equipment. If your car is not a California emissions equipment package vehicle, then someone did a MAF conversion.

Swapping the MAF sensors between different MAFs is a big no no. The MAF body and sensor are designed to match each other. Therefore you can't swap sensors between different part number MAF bodies and maintain proper calibration. The assembly is designed to match the computer’s internal program, and swapping a different MAF can upset the computer's calibration. In other words, your monster MAF probably won't match the calibration of your 5.0 Mustang computer.

The OEM Ford MAFs are not calibrated to injector size. The injector sizing is done in the computer’s internal programming. Aftermarket MAF’s “lie” to the computer in an attempt to fool the computer into changing the injector pulse on timing to match the increased airflow.

The exception to the above statements is if you have an aftermarket tuner system such as Moates Quarterhorse, Tweecer, or similar device. Then you can alter the computer's MAF transfer function table to match whatever MAF housing and sensor you have. The tuner device works in conjunction with a high quality Air/Fuel ratio meter so that you can tell what sort of air/fuel mixture you have a any given time.

The only other MAF that is a one for one swap for a 93 and earlier 5.0 Mustang is the 94-95 Mustang MAF.

94-95 Mustang GT MAF - $40-$100. It is 70 MM instead of the stock 55 MM on regular stangs built prior to 94. It uses a slip on duct on the side that goes to the throttle body and a 4 bolt flange on the other. You need a flange adapter to fit the stock slip on air ducting that goes to the air box. Wiring plugs right in with no changes. *1 *2

Once your replacement 70MM MAF is in place, disconnect the battery for about 10 minutes. When you reconnect the battery and start the engine, the computer will relearn the settings for the new MAF.

*1.) Metal flange adapter http://www.kustomz.com/cat3.html Buy the TR70 for $44.95. Or spend some time on eBay looking for one that may fit.

*2.) MAF & sensor interchange
The 94-95 Mustang 5.0 MAF & sensor is also found on:
1995-94 Mustang 3.8L F2VF-12B579-A2A,
1994-92 Crown Victoria 4.6L F2VF-12B579-A2A,
1995-94 Mustang, Mustang Cobra 5.0L F2VF-12B579-A2A,
1994-92 Town Car 4.6L F2VF-12B579-A2A,
1994-92 Grand Marquis 4.6L F2VF-12B579-A2A,
Evidently the –A1A, -A2A, AA, etc. on the end of the part number is a minor variant that did not change the operating specs. You should be able to ignore it and have everything work good.





Code 66 or 157 MAF below minimum test voltage.

Revised 10-Feb-2014 to add 95-95 Mustang code 157 and 94-95 ECC diagram

Insufficient or no voltage from MAF. Dirty MAF element, bad MAF, bad MAF wiring, missing power to MAF. Check for missing +12 volts on this circuit. Check the two links for a wiring diagram to help you find the red wire for computer power relay switched +12 volts. Check for 12 volts between the red and black wires on the MAF heater (usually pins A & B). while the connector is plugged into the MAF. This may require the use of a couple of safety pins to probe the MAF connector from the back side of it.

Computer connector for 88-93 5.0 Mustangs
a9x-series-computer-connector-wire-side-view-gif.71316.gif

Diagrams courtesy of Tmoss and Stang&2Birds

ECC Diagram for 88-90 5.0 Mustangs
88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif


ECC Diagram for 91-93 5.0 Mustangs
91-93_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif


94-95 Diagram for 94-95 5.0 Mustangs

94-95_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif


There are three parts in a MAF: the heater, the sensor element and the amplifier. The heater heats the MAF sensor element causing the resistance to increase. The amplifier buffers the MAF output signal and has a resistor that is laser trimmed to provide an output range compatible with the computer's load tables. Changes in RPM causes the airflow to increase or decrease, changing the voltage output.. The increase of air across the MAF sensor element causes it to cool, allowing more voltage to pass and telling the computer to increase the fuel flow. A decrease in airflow causes the MAF sensor element to get warmer, decreasing the voltage and reducing the fuel flow.

The MAF element is secured by 2 screws & has 1 wiring connector. To clean the element, remove it from the MAF housing and spray it down with electronic parts cleaner or non-inflammable brake parts cleaner (same stuff in a bigger can and cheaper too).

89-90 Model cars: Measure the MAF output at pins C & D on the MAF connector (dark blue/orange and tan/light blue) or at pins 50 & 9 on the computer. Be sure to measure the sensor output by measuring across the pins and not between the pins and ground.

91-95 Model cars: Measure the MAF output at pins C & D on the MAF connector light blue/red and tan/light blue) or at pins 50 & 9 on the computer. Be sure to measure the sensor output by measuring across the pins and not between the pins and ground.


At idle = approximately .6 volt
20 MPH = approximately 1.10 volt
40 MPH = approximately 1.70 volt
60 MPH = approximately 2.10 volt

Check the resistance of the MAF signal wiring. Pin D on the MAF and pin 50 on the computer (dark blue/orange wire) should be less than 2 ohms. Pin C on the MAF and pin 9 on the computer (tan/light blue wire) should be less than 2 ohms.

There should be a minimum of 10K ohms between either pin C or D on the MAF wiring connector and pins A or B. Make your measurement with the MAF disconnected from the wiring harness.

Actually MAF pins C & D float with reference to ground. The signal output of the MAF is a differential amplifier setup. Pins C & D both carry the output signal, but one pin's output is inverted from the other. The difference in signal between C & D is what the computer's input circuit is looking for. The difference in the two outputs helps cancel out electrical noise generated by the ignition system and other components. Since the noise will be of the same polarity, wave shape and magnitude, the differential input of the computer electronically subtracts it from the signal. Then it passes the signal on to an Analog to Digital converter section inside the computer's CPU chip.

See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host) for help on 88-95 wiring http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/

Ignition switch wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif

Fuel pump, alternator, ignition & A/C wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

Computer,. actuator & sensor wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Fuse panel layout
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/MustangFuseBox.gif

Vacuum routing
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangFoxFordVacuumDiagram.jpg
That was kind of miss leading. I dumped codes replaced sensor and it keeps coming back
 

Trenton Mattison

New Member
Jul 19, 2016
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0
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Do you have access to another, working Fox body MAF to try?
Yes. Have about 4 others. There's no way all 4 are bad beings the other 3 are driven daily. Plus I had taken the bad MAF out of the troubled car and put it in another. I'm at a loss. Is there some fuse assortment for the MAF??
 

Trenton Mattison

New Member
Jul 19, 2016
9
0
1
23
I know for sure there are no broken or damaged wires due to running resistance test and check the voltages that are required. I'm still at a loss and it has to be something else!
 

Trenton Mattison

New Member
Jul 19, 2016
9
0
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Well thank you all for your help I shall continue else where to receive help but I will for sure try and jump the MAF
 

Noobz347

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor
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Post in the 1979-1995 subforum in the tech section.

This is just the place people come to say hey.

A moderator can get your post moved there, @Noobz347

@jrichker will be a very good person for you to get to know, he can help you through this.


Dave. You now possess the ability to move threads. Look around your screen for new controls and check the sub-menus. If you have trouble finding it, send me a PM and we'll walk through it this evening.
 

Trenton Mattison

New Member
Jul 19, 2016
9
0
1
23
If it does help I have an after market BBK intake on the computer and when I trying doing a KOER scan test I get the fail code. Time after time and when it detects the car the code reader only comes up 6 cylinders. I may try switching intakes out from an '89 we have.
 

jrichker

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Mar 10, 2000
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There are instances of getting a indication of 6 cylinders with a perfectly good computer.

As for clearing the codes, go back and read the first part of my long post.

Dump codes sticky.
Look at the top of the 5.0 Tech forum where the sticky threads are posted. One of them is how to dump the computer codes. http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-for...codes-from-eec4-in-86-95-5-0-mustangs.889006/ I highly suggest that you read it and follow the instructions to dump the codes.
 

jrichker

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List all the numeric codes you get and I will post 5.0 Mustang specific definitions and fixes.

You probably got a code 67 and here is the way to take care of that.
Code 67 –
Revised 2 Nov 2012 to add definition of the NSS functions for both 5 speed and auto transmissions

Cause of problem:
clutch not depressed (5 speed) or car not in neutral or park (auto) or A/C in On position when codes where dumped. Possible neutral safety switch or wiring problem. This code may prevent you from running the Key On Engine On tests.

External evidence from other sources claims that a code 67 can cause an idle surge condition. Do try to find and fix any issues with the switch and wiring if you get a code 67.

What the NSS (Neutral Safety Switch) does:
5 speed transmission: It has no connection with the starter, and the engine can be cranked without it being connected.
Auto transmission: It is the safety interlock that prevents the starter from cranking the engine with the transmission in gear.
What it does for both 5 speed and auto transmission cars:
The computer wants to make sure the A/C is off due to the added load on the engine for the engine running computer diagnostic tests. It also checks to see that the transmission is in Neutral (5 speed and auto transmission) and the clutch depressed (T5, T56, Tremec 3550 & TKO)). This prevents the diagnostics from being run when the car is driven. Key On Engine Running test mode takes the throttle control away from the driver for several tests. This could prove hazardous if the computer was jumpered into test mode and then driven.

The following is for 5 speed cars only.
The NSS code 67 can be bypassed for testing. You will need to temporarily ground computer pin 30 to the chassis. Computer pin 30 uses a Lt blue/yellow wire. Remove the passenger side kick panel and then remove the plastic cover from the computer wiring connector. Use a safety pin to probe the connector from the rear. Jumper the safety pin to the ground near the computer.
Be sure to remove the jumper BEFORE attempting to drive the car!!!

a9x-series-computer-connector-wire-side-view-gif.71316
 

Davedacarpainter

Chicks can make things hard if they’re inspired...
SN Certified Technician
Nov 28, 2015
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Dave. You now possess the ability to move threads. Look around your screen for new controls and check the sub-menus. If you have trouble finding it, send me a PM and we'll walk through it this evening.
Ok Noobz, I think I understand it.

Thanks.........I think.......:scratch: