Port Job W/ 170s Or 190s

Reddevil91

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#1
Ok so ready to pull the trigger on my heads. I talked with @tmoss about my lower intake and will be sending it off soon to get it ported and welded, as he said either head would work great. I have been eager to get the TFS 11R 170s but is the extra 100 bucks worth getting the 190s? Is there a major benefit on one vs the other? Feel like most ppl go with 170s but just wanted some input as I’ll be ordering this weekend, so 170s or 190s?!?!?! Thanks
 
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Hoytster

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#2
What are your other engine specs and what is the goal with your car? If it's a mild street build with stock displacement, I'd stick with the 11R 170's.
 

Reddevil91

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#3
What are your other engine specs and what is the goal with your car? If it's a mild street build with stock displacement, I'd stick with the 11R 170's.
No stroker kit even though I contemplated it. Stock 302 with 150k. GT40 tubular which I will be sending out to Have the lower ported, planning on 1.6s, has an F cam currently but debating TFS stage 2, changing my 65 to a 70mm TB, pro m 80 for 47lb inj., and getting a Vortech V3. I’m guessing 190s are better suited for stroked cars?
 

Hoytster

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#4
190's have more flow potential out of the box, so they are better suited for stroker or higher RPM applications if you ever had that in your plans. . With you overall other plans, I would stick with the 170's. Between those heads, blower, and your other mods you'll be making enough power on a stock 150k block. I would get a different cam than the F, the TFS stage 2 is decent blower cam but a custom is even better. What do you have for exhaust?
 

Reddevil91

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#5
190's have more flow potential out of the box, so they are better suited for stroker or higher RPM applications if you ever had that in your plans. . With you overall other plans, I would stick with the 170's. Between those heads, blower, and your other mods you'll be making enough power on a stock 150k block. I would get a different cam than the F, the TFS stage 2 is decent blower cam but a custom is even better. What do you have for exhaust?
Currently I have some old Mac shorties, running to an off road H-pipe and some old flow masters as well. Been looking to change it up, w/ some new headers, been thinking about about going equal length shorties ceramic bbk’s, maybe keep the h-pipe or get a new x pipe, mufflers idk what’s good now days besides flow masters. Use to like the MAC but think they are kinda out. Heard slp it’s loud but not my fav.
 

Hoytster

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#6
Currently I have some old Mac shorties, running to an off road H-pipe and some old flow masters as well. Been looking to change it up, w/ some new headers, been thinking about about going equal length shorties ceramic bbk’s, maybe keep the h-pipe or get a new x pipe, mufflers idk what’s good now days besides flow masters. Use to like the MAC but think they are kinda out. Heard slp it’s loud but not my fav.

I'm old school in I still prefer the sound of a 5.0 through some 40 series flows. My old setup on my 95' was BBK ceramic long tubes with their off road x-pipe and original 40 series flows. Loved the way that car sounded.
 

FoxMustangLvr

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#7
For best performance you should look into straight thru mufflers like Magnaflow, Dynomax, Jones, etc. If you can't drop your keys through the muffler then it's not the best performing muffler. I will be switching soon myself. As far as heads go the 190's will work fine but you won't see much of a difference in performance for two reasons, 1) you will be choking out the heads with the GT40 intake regardless of porting, 2) You'll be reaching the limits of the stock block so you won't be able to take full advantage of the larger heads. The 190's will have better resale value in the long run and a lot of people are now going toward big head small cube builds. To make that type of build successful you really need a custom cam and be sure to have larger headers. Intake and exhaust velocity is critical and having too small of headers can hurt performance a lot. There is a great thread on Corral about this and a lot of good advice given from Ed Curtis and Buddy Rawls about why the cam makes or breaks this type of combo.

47lb injectors will be too small for a HCI 302 with boost. You'll need about 60# per/hr injectors.

Inj Flow Rate (@ 40 psid) Naturally Aspirated hp (@ 0.50) Forced-Induction hp (@ 0.65)
19 lb/hr 258 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle 199 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle
24 lb/hr 326 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle 251 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle
30 lb/hr 408 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle 314 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle
32 lb/hr 435 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle 335 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle
34 lb/hr 462 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle 356 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle
36 lb/hr 490 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle 377 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle
38 lb/hr 516 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle 398 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle
39 lb/hr 530 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle 408 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle
42 lb/hr 571 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle 439 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle
44 lb/hr 598 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle 460 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle
47 lb/hr 639 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle 492 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle
60 lb/hr 816 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle 628 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle
 

Hoytster

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#10
I would assume that since this is a 150K stock block, you would be keeping your power goals below 500HP crank which would be attainable with your current 47's and whatever muffler design you choose, keeping boost pressure between 8-10psi on stock 11r 170's. @FoxMustangLvr is correct about everything he said if your goals are more than that, but I'd be looking at a new short block at that point. Custom cam is the way to go, though the stage 2 would still more than meet a goal of 500HP crank for a little less money. Last time I checked the stage 2 was basically a copy of an older Anderson blower cam.
 

Reddevil91

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#11
For best performance you should look into straight thru mufflers like Magnaflow, Dynomax, Jones, etc. If you can't drop your keys through the muffler then it's not the best performing muffler. I will be switching soon myself. As far as heads go the 190's will work fine but you won't see much of a difference in performance for two reasons, 1) you will be choking out the heads with the GT40 intake regardless of porting, 2) You'll be reaching the limits of the stock block so you won't be able to take full advantage of the larger heads. The 190's will have better resale value in the long run and a lot of people are now going toward big head small cube builds. To make that type of build successful you really need a custom cam and be sure to have larger headers. Intake and exhaust velocity is critical and having too small of headers can hurt performance a lot. There is a great thread on Corral about this and a lot of good advice given from Ed Curtis and Buddy Rawls about why the cam makes or breaks this type of combo.

47lb injectors will be too small for a HCI 302 with boost. You'll need about 60# per/hr injectors.

Inj Flow Rate (@ 40 psid) Naturally Aspirated hp (@ 0.50) Forced-Induction hp (@ 0.65)
19 lb/hr 258 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle 199 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle
24 lb/hr 326 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle 251 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle
30 lb/hr 408 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle 314 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle
32 lb/hr 435 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle 335 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle
34 lb/hr 462 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle 356 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle
36 lb/hr 490 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle 377 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle
38 lb/hr 516 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle 398 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle
39 lb/hr 530 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle 408 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle
42 lb/hr 571 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle 439 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle
44 lb/hr 598 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle 460 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle
47 lb/hr 639 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle 492 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle
60 lb/hr 816 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle 628 hp @ 85% Duty Cycle
So by to small of header, if I got 170s or 190s, are you talking about the flange area? Would equal length be to small, or any better than shorties. Are BBKs good or are ppl using pypes, bassani, hookers etc?
 

Reddevil91

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#12
I would assume that since this is a 150K stock block, you would be keeping your power goals below 500HP crank which would be attainable with your current 47's and whatever muffler design you choose, keeping boost pressure between 8-10psi on stock 11r 170's. @FoxMustangLvr is correct about everything he said if your goals are more than that, but I'd be looking at a new short block at that point. Custom cam is the way to go, though the stage 2 would still more than meet a goal of 500HP crank for a little less money. Last time I checked the stage 2 was basically a copy of an older Anderson blower cam.
I would love to attain that hp but yes with 150k I know that kinda pushing the limits. I have thought about getting a new 302 short block since they are pretty reasonable, don’t know. Thinking I could push my motor since it’s not been super beat and hopefully handle it. Guess I’m afraid that like everyone else I’m gonna love the new found power and then want more.
 

Hoytster

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#14
I would love to attain that hp but yes with 150k I know that kinda pushing the limits. I have thought about getting a new 302 short block since they are pretty reasonable, don’t know. Thinking I could push my motor since it’s not been super beat and hopefully handle it. Guess I’m afraid that like everyone else I’m gonna love the new found power and then want more.
You'll should be fine with what you got as long as you don't go crazy, I'm just trying to give you a different perspective then a full out build. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of people well over the 500HP mark on a stock block, but they tend to be the people that don't mind if it blows up and are building for every last HP. A 420-420 WHP boosted fox is plenty fun on the street.
 

FoxMustangLvr

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#17
I would assume that since this is a 150K stock block, you would be keeping your power goals below 500HP crank which would be attainable with your current 47's and whatever muffler design you choose, keeping boost pressure between 8-10psi on stock 11r 170's. @FoxMustangLvr is correct about everything he said if your goals are more than that, but I'd be looking at a new short block at that point. Custom cam is the way to go, though the stage 2 would still more than meet a goal of 500HP crank for a little less money. Last time I checked the stage 2 was basically a copy of an older Anderson blower cam.
47# injectors on a boosted engine is only rated to 492 bhp (crank hp) @85% duty cycle, that's about 440rwhp through a T5 which he will easily make. The injectors will be maxed out. If he keeps the boost down then he will be OK, if he wants to turn it up then he'd be going beyond a reliable duty cycle to supply enough fuel. It all depends on what this guys goals are.

The 11r 170 heads will definitely do the job but I like the idea of the 190 heads because they will work too and gives him room to grow if he ever gets hungry for more like most do. The 11r 190 heads would be great on a 351w, or if he went stroker they will work great on a 331. I'm just playing both sides here :nice:
 

FoxMustangLvr

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#18
So by to small of header, if I got 170s or 190s, are you talking about the flange area? Would equal length be to small, or any better than shorties. Are BBKs good or are ppl using pypes, bassani, hookers etc?
The 11r 170 heads would be fine with 1 5/8" dia headers. Equal length typically aren't worth the headache, I'd either go with unequal length or long tube (full length) headers. I have BBK long tube headers and love them. Always drop the extra coin for ceramic!!
 

Reddevil91

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#19
The 11r 170 heads would be fine with 1 5/8" dia headers. Equal length typically aren't worth the headache, I'd either go with unequal length or long tube (full length) headers. I have BBK long tube headers and love them. Always drop the extra coin for ceramic!!
Def gonna get ceramic, so my car is dropped on some old school Jamex springs from back in the day. Will I have issues with long tubes?
 

Hoytster

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#20
Def gonna get ceramic, so my car is dropped on some old school Jamex springs from back in the day. Will I have issues with long tubes?
It all depends on how far the Jamex springs drop your car, I'm not familiar with those springs. I personally never had an issue mine on my 95 when running H&R race springs and I drove that car on the track a lot (over curbing, through the carousel at summit point, ect, ect).
 

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