Pulleys & Brackets for Rev Rotation WP?

[Tim65GT]

Some issues with my new crate motor:

I changed to a crossflow radiator a while back so now the outlet is on the driverside. The new waterpump and timing cover are reverse flow with the inlet on the drivers side too; right where I want it. So I'm going to switch to a serpentine setup.

It looks like my Vintage Air compressor bracket will still line up with the same three waterpump bolts and the same headbolt, I'll just have to work with some spacer tubes to get the right depth. ( I have manual steering, so no PS pump)

There's no way the alternator bracket will work though, as the depth of the waterpump bosses is just too far off from the old standard rotation waterpump.

Most of the alternator bracket kits I see put the alternator up high on the passenger side. Is that because of the timing pointer location? What about the heater hose? It looks like it's pointing right at the alternator?

I also was looking at Pulley kits. 90% seem to be the "Performance ratio". I'd rather go with a stock ratio. Seems like there would be a gazillion of the stock pulleys on eBay.

What is the difference between the 87-93 setup and the 94-95 setup? I plan on keeping the mech fuel pump. Will only the early set up give the clearance? I measured 3 1/4" from the balancer pulley mounting surface to the WP pulley mounting surface. Is that the early or late style?

Trying to get some info before heading to the salvage yards. Thanks for any input.

 

[geostang351]

Subscribing. I have the same problem with the Alternator and have to shim it out for my serpintine system. At current I have it shimmed out 3/8" and still throw the belt once in a while. Like to see what you do.

 

[D.Hearne]

The 94-95 setup tucks the accessories closer to the motor, waterpump is shorter too. Virtually nothing as far as the accesories go, interchanges from 93-down(mustang) to 94-up. The 94-95 setup was borrowed from the 89-up T-Bird/Cougar 5.0. The timing cover for these was later used with the Explorer/Mountaineer 5.0, but with a different waterpump.

 

[Tim65GT]

D.Hearne
The 94-95 setup tucks the accessories closer to the motor, waterpump is shorter too.

Thanks for the info, that's what I thought. I'm sure the new waterpump that came with my crate motor is not a short one. The notes info on the Ford Racing site is contradictory. it says:

The timing chain cover (M-6059-D351) will work with most V-belt applications, see page 97 for other timing chain covers.

The water pump (M-8501-C50) will work on 1986-93 Mustangs. For other applications see pages 97-98.

V-belts are not reverse rotation.

 

[Rusty67]

It says that because you can put a standard rotation water pump on the timing cover it comes with.

I have a spare set of serpentine pullys for the crank, waterpump and alternator because I went to an underdrive kit for mine. I suppose I can try and dig those out for you.

I don't know if the 351w bracket Ford sells for AC/PS will work with a 5.0/302 block but the part number is m-8511-b351 and you could use an aftermarket bracket for the alternator like one from March or a Summit brand one.

As far as the factory/junkyard parts, I think the only differences between the pre 94-95 setup was that one setup uses a tensioner that you can stick a pry bar into and one of them has a tensioner that requires a special tool or a braker bar with a stocket to open. I have the older style on the motor that is in my car. I think the motor that I have on my stand right now has the newer style tensioner. I used to like the older style for its simplicity but I'm starting to like the newer style that takes a socket because I think it looks cleaner.

I think a 94-95 setup would be good for people trying to run a larger electric fan. My fan BARELY clears the water pump. The black magic fan my friend gave me would NOT fit with my gigantic radiator and I had to give it back =-(

 

[D.Hearne]

Ford makes a short pump for the std rotation timing cover, if you're after one. M-8501-E351S. The C50 pump doesn't work with the D351 cover. The cover it fits has the coolant ports reversed, it's a mirror image to the D351 cover. The B50 pump was carried over from the early reverse rotation setup first used in the 79 Stangs. At some point in the 80's Ford revised the setup and came out with the reversed timing cover coolant ports. The pump for this will bolt on to the older cover, but the ports don't jive with each other. Neither does the gasket.

 

[Tim65GT]

Thanks for the input.

So, what about the alternator position? If I decide to mount it low where it was before, will I still be able to check the timing?

Or if I get the bracket set that mounts it high, will the heater hose clear?

I haven't gotten around to mocking it up yet to check the routing of the belt with the AC compressor. Which brings up another issue...

Is the 6-rib serpentine pulley/clutch from a stock compressor compatible with the Sanden 508 type compressor, or is my only option to buy the $110 pulley for my Sanden?

 

[D.Hearne]

You'll need to mount the Alternator high enough to see the timing pointer. That would be at least about the 9 o'clock position on the passenger side. That's where I have it on my 77 Comet, Same timing pointer you're using, but the setup on it is a V belt with just the alternator and waterpump. Can't say about your Sanden question, what pulley is on it now?

 

[Tim65GT]

D.Hearne
You'll need to mount the Alternator high enough to see the timing pointer. That would be at least about the 9 o'clock position on the passenger side. That's where I have it on my 77 Comet, Same timing pointer you're using, but the setup on it is a V belt with just the alternator and waterpump. Can't say about your Sanden question, what pulley is on it now?

I'm not so sure I could go at 9 o'clock, I guess I'll shoot for the high position. That seems to be the choice on most of the rev rotation setups I've seen. I think I'll need the waterneck that points up and a Fox type radiator hose.

My Sanden 508 AC compressor has dual V-groove pulley now. This supposedly is a March serpentine pulley/clutch from www.bieberfever.com on ebay for $100:

View attachment 342641

They say

March P475 Ford Sanden

. Does that mean Ford and Sanden are compatible? If thats the case, I could get a compressor w/pulley from the salvage yard for $30-$40 and just swap the pulley.

 

[Rusty67]

Or go to the salvage yard and tank the pulley while you are there and only pay for the pully. That would provably be even cheaper. Only problem with junkyard pullys for the AC is that is does have a clutch in it and might not last long or already be dead. Why don't you check what a replacement part costs at a local auto supply ?

 

[Tim65GT]

Rusty67
Or go to the salvage yard and tank the pulley while you are there and only pay for the pully. That would provably be even cheaper. Only problem with junkyard pullys for the AC is that is does have a clutch in it and might not last long or already be dead. Why don't you check what a replacement part costs at a local auto supply ?

A lot of places here won't let you take stuff apart. They want you to buy the whole thing.

The clutch can easily be checked, the places I go to will check it there with a battery, or let me return it for another if it turns out it's bad.

Good idea about the local auto parts! Checker shows a Reman Ready-Aire for$70 on their PartsAmerica site. If they stock it locally, I could bring my Sanden compressor and clutch in to see if it's compatible.

If so, I'll see what I can score at the salvage yards. I have to search for an AOD anyway.

 

[Tim65GT]

The local Checker store parts guy checked a few applications for compressor clutches and none of them seem to be compatible with my sanden. I found this at Concept One:

They state:

Now you can replace your old V-belt pulley on your Sanden compressor without buying the entire clutch or a new compressor. Use this pulley when upgrading to a serpentine pulley system from an old V-belt system. Pulleys are 7 groove (just like Sanden pulleys) and are plated to prevent corrosion.

A1400 - Serpentine Pulley for Sanden SD508 Compressors.....$85.00

I guess that's probably my best option for my AC compressor. Anyone done this?

 

[STSFCTN67]

On my 351 I used the 90 mustang style front pulleys (from a fox body LTD w\302) I used everything except the smog pump. I purchased the Ford 351 swap brackets from Summit. I used the late model p/s pump with an adapter fitting for the old style p/s line. I also purchased a performance pulley kit. The water pump is reverse rotation. I have a mechanical carter fuel pump. Everything is tight but it works great. The hardest part is making sure you get all the spacers and bolts from the donor.

 

[Tim65GT]

I ordered the above serp pulley from concept one also a March-1000 pulley set and the March-1465 Alternator bracket from Summit. Hopefully everthing will line up.

Going to paint my engine bay now. Stuff will start going together soon.

 

[Tim65GT]

Finally got around to mocking up the serpentine drive stuff. First thing I did was bolt on the March Pulleys (part #1000) The Alternator pulley wouldn't fit on my 3G, so i pulled out the pulley that cam with it (Salvage yard '94 Mustang GT)

I had to cut all the spacers on the alternator bracket kit (March # 1465) about one tenth of an inch to get it to line up.

It took about three tries to bolt on my Vintage Air AC Compressor Bracket with different spacer configurations to figure out the best way where it would line up with the WP, crank and alt pulleys. I ended up cutting off the far left end of the bracket.

I took a string and ran it around the pulleys, measured it so I could get a belt. It came out about 2" too short. I'll keep exchanging it 'til I get the right length.

I had to get a water outlet for a '93 5.0 that pointed straight up in order to clear the belt and adjustable tensioner rod for the alternator.

Any tips on what heater hose to get that has a 90 degree bend so it can clear the alternator?

 

[geostang351]

I had to get a water outlet for a '93 5.0 that pointed straight up in order to clear the belt and adjustable tensioner rod for the alternator.

Any tips on what heater hose to get that has a 90 degree bend so it can clear the alternator?

What do you think?

http://mustangsunlimited.com/itemdy.../Cooling&subCategory=Belts/Hoses&CatKey=74-01

http://mustangsunlimited.com/itemdy.../Cooling&subCategory=Belts/Hoses&CatKey=74-01

http://mustangsunlimited.com/SubCat.../Hoses&category=Heating/Cooling&KeyWords=LMJ1

 

[bnickel]

the heater hose you need is a 5/8 hose with a 90 degree end. you should be able to find one at the local parts store, they make them in various lengths so it shouldn't be hard to find what you need.

 

[Tim65GT]

Thanx for the replies.

The links posted were for Radiator hoses and I think I have that part covered.

I just had the parts counter guy walk down the Isle and get me a 5/8" hose with a 90 on the end. I ended up with a 65" belt which worked great. With the adjuster shortened all the way, the belt slipped on and still has plenty of threads on the hiem joints when the belt is tensioned. That put the Alternator almost straight up at 12 oclock and plenty of room for the heater hose bend. The output stud on the back of the alternator is pretty close to the dipstick now though. I'll probably get one of those plastic/rubber caps that go over the stud to protect it from accidental shorting while cheking the oil.

Since the Waterneck is a 93 Mustang part and it fits, I got the Matching 90 degree bypass hose. I wonder why the water neck heater bypass is 3/4" when the WP has the standard 5/8". No big deal, just goofy.

 

[geostang351]

How about an overhead shot of the final install?

 

[Tim65GT]

geostang351
How about an overhead shot of the final install?

This is the best I have, until I get it back in the car and reassemble everything.