PUSHROD -VS- MODULAR

[xoxbxfx]

All I know is a few months back, Hot Rod featured a blown, 4.6 powered Cougar that cranked out a bit over 1000hp, ran in the 6's and had a stock bottom end. I also read an article several years ago with the late Mickey Thompson about his SOHC floppers. He stated that the blown fuel Cammers were putting out "about 1000hp", but were splitting blocks right and left. I know we'd all like to believe the big Fords were big, bad and burley, and feared by all in the good old days, but it just isn't so. Look at the guys racing the FAST series, see any Fords? Know why? Please don't misunderstand, I bleed Ford blue and I really feel that the Ford Mustang is a great car and I'm glad to see that Mustangs are so widely accepted by racers these days, but let's be honest, FE Fords of any kind or size never really had the big block Chevys, Mopars and such shaking with fear.

these blocks are like stock 5.0 roller blocks.. You win some you lose some. Some guys push 600rwhp on stock roller blocks but some are splitting at 400rwhp.

 

[96 DOHC Cobra]

For the money you can spend on a mod motor to get big numbers that same money can get you bigger numbers with a big inch Windsor, that is a fact. Mod motors can rev, but so can a well built push rod, mod motors love boost, but so does a well built push rod.

A couple of things I've found out about mod motors would keep me away from this kind of project. Apparently mod motor clearances are lot more tighter than on pushrod motors and much more critical. The cams on the the heads are riding on the heads. There's no bearing between the spinning cam and the head's cam journals. If you don't keep a close eye on your oil level and pressure, you'll be surprised at how quiclkly you'll have to replace a head. I'm scared to death at the thought of ever having to pull the engine in my Cobra. Everything I see for them is WAY expensive.

 

[96 DOHC Cobra]

All I know is a few months back, Hot Rod featured a blown, 4.6 powered Cougar that cranked out a bit over 1000hp, ran in the 6's and had a stock bottom end.

That sounds like John Mihovitz' car. It's a pro drag car, don't remember what class he runs. I doubt there's anything "stock" on that motor.

 

[LUCAFU1]

If you want to stay NA go with a pushrod motor. I dont care what anyone says, if you want to throw boost at it them modular is the way to go. a stock 03 cobra longblock with twin 57mm turbos have gone 9s. if you decide to build one the rods, crank, and pistons must be swapped out if its not fro a 03/04 cobra.

btw the cobras rods are made from manley, not crower or the other brand.

modulars are great engines but i would never build one for N/A purposes.

 

[302 coupe]

why not just throw twins on a 351, same result, if not faster.

 

[MitchGT]

Are you drag racing, or going around corners? An aluminum headed SBF weighs under 400 pounds, which is much easier to get around corners. If money is no object (it must not be if you are talking 03 cobra motors), buy an aftermarket block and stroke it. You will make more power than you could ever hook up on the street, and you could put a big nitrous shot for the track.... and you could still turn around corners.

 

[Max Power]

Look at the guys racing the FAST series, see any Fords? Know why? Please don't misunderstand, I bleed Ford blue and I really feel that the Ford Mustang is a great car and I'm glad to see that Mustangs are so widely accepted by racers these days, but let's be honest, FE Fords of any kind or size never really had the big block Chevys, Mopars and such shaking with fear.

The 68 1/2 Cobra Jet Mustangs dominated their classes back in the day, didn't they?

 

[Nemesis67]

why not just throw twins on a 351, same result, if not faster.

Funny you should say that. I've already thought about doing just this very thing. Considering I'm going with a mII front suspension that will illiminate the front shock towers for much more room! So doing a twin setup would not be a problem.

 

[D.Hearne]

The 68 1/2 Cobra Jet Mustangs dominated their classes back in the day, didn't they?

I think Zoo needs to read up on his history. Chevy's were a non factor back in the 60's due to GM's policy of not participating (at least not in the open) in racing venues of any kind. When they did they had to play catch up to Ford and Mopar. With those two, it was a neck and neck thing in every form of racing. The main reason for the SOHC 427's demise was Nascar's refusal to homologate it, even if Ford had put in into production cars. It was only a contender in Top fuel drag racing. And even then, there were two reasons for it's demise, one was the block cracking and two was the length of time needed to rebuild between rounds. The first could have been addressed with stronger blocks, but there was no getting around the other. Zoo has put down FE's but there's no denying the fact that it was successful in every form of racing it was used in. And it's made a come back now in the aftermarket.Twenty years ago, you were limited to used parts to build a 427, now you can build one from scratch using all new parts. Take a complete new 427 put a blower on it and see then how it fares against the mod motors. There's even at least one guy in superstock that's busted into the 9's with a 428.

 

[zookeeper]

I know enough about racing history to not try to look at it through rose-colored glasses. Jungle Jim used iron block, iron head bb chevys in funny cars for years and was more than a little competetive. Jim Bucher used an iron block, iron head bb chevy in his rear engine top fuel car into the seventies for pete's sake! Grumpy Jenkins used a bb chevy to blow Ford legend Dyno Don's SOHC Maverick away week after week. When the Grump didn't win, Ronnie Sox did. As far as someone running 9's with an FE motor, you can bet it's a time bomb. I've seen mildly built 460's get over 750hp in various magazine dyno tests, but ask anyone who's ever raced an FE what it would take to get those numbers. A few years ago I went to Laguna Seca to be there for Ford's 100th anniversary and I can tell you this: 427 FE Cobras were about on a par with small block Corvettes going up the front straight and were no match at all for the Daytona coupes or GT40's that were on the track at the same time. In fact the fastest of the 427 roadsters grenaded it's killer 427 going into turn 11, spewing oil everywhere. I stand by my original statement that if the FE Ford were that great of a motor, you'd see Cobra Jets and 427 FE's at least competing in one of the stock-appearing drag series. Instead I see 10 second (you read that right) Chevys on bias ply tires running amok. Maybe one of the FE experts here can prove me wrong and build a fast, reliable 427, I'd love to see one and I'd be the first to congratulate anyone who does, but until I see it I don't believe it.

 

[Nemesis67]

I can see it now
We're not looking for a fight are we?
I hope not, this is a family channel.

 

[D.Hearne]

I know enough about racing history to not try to look at it through rose-colored glasses. Jungle Jim used iron block, iron head bb chevys in funny cars for years and was more than a little competetive. Jim Bucher used an iron block, iron head bb chevy in his rear engine top fuel car into the seventies for pete's sake! Grumpy Jenkins used a bb chevy to blow Ford legend Dyno Don's SOHC Maverick away week after week. When the Grump didn't win, Ronnie Sox did. As far as someone running 9's with an FE motor, you can bet it's a time bomb. I've seen mildly built 460's get over 750hp in various magazine dyno tests, but ask anyone who's ever raced an FE what it would take to get those numbers. A few years ago I went to Laguna Seca to be there for Ford's 100th anniversary and I can tell you this: 427 FE Cobras were about on a par with small block Corvettes going up the front straight and were no match at all for the Daytona coupes or GT40's that were on the track at the same time. In fact the fastest of the 427 roadsters grenaded it's killer 427 going into turn 11, spewing oil everywhere. I stand by my original statement that if the FE Ford were that great of a motor, you'd see Cobra Jets and 427 FE's at least competing in one of the stock-appearing drag series. Instead I see 10 second (you read that right) Chevys on bias ply tires running amok. Maybe one of the FE experts here can prove me wrong and build a fast, reliable 427, I'd love to see one and I'd be the first to congratulate anyone who does, but until I see it I don't believe it.

Make a visit over on the FE big block forum on Network54. Trust me, you'll find a lot o guys there that build and run them. Sure they're not as popular as a big block Chevy, but they're not fragile either. And it's also funny that Ford won Lemans 2 years in a row with the 427. Wonder how that happened?

 

[Max Power]

I was gonna mention Lemans next. Hearne beat me to it. Also, there was a feature in PHR last month about a 750hp FE from the engine masters challenge.

 

[302 coupe]

I thought we were talking pushrod vs. modular, not FE vs. the world.

 

[Nemesis67]

Well that's how it started. And I'm pretty well convinced on what I'm going to do. I'm going to go with a stroked 351. Possible turbo or supercharger in the future.
Thanks to all for their inputs! :SNSign:

 

[Max Power]

Nemesis, I have a stroked 351, and it has pretty much cured my jones for a big block or anything else. You will be very happy.

 

[Pbum5]

Make a visit over on the FE big block forum on Network54. Trust me, you'll find a lot o guys there that build and run them. Sure they're not as popular as a big block Chevy, but they're not fragile either. And it's also funny that Ford won Lemans 2 years in a row with the 427. Wonder how that happened?

That doesn’t mean anything. It's only a 24hr flat out race. (that’s a joke)

Don’t forget they went 1,2,3 in 66. And won 4 years in a row.

That’s very impressive.

1st 2nd & 3rd in ’66

1st & 4th ’67

1st ’68

1st, 3rd, 6th in ’69


correct me if I am wrong but the later years had smaller motors.

 

[Nemesis67]

Just for fun: There's an 03 Cobra in Dallas that's going for just under 20K. I went to see it and I'm sorry to report that the previous owner did not take care of it
This S.O.B took out the original interior and replaced it with some cheapo black pleather-like seats (front and back). He put 99 GT rims painted black on it. And beat the living crap out of it. It's got scratches and dings all over it, the rearend is "shoddy", the sales guy's word not mine, and third gear slips. When it was sitting there idling in front of me the "idiot": check engine light was on steady and when I reved the motor one time the poor thing died on me. I looked at the sales guy and said "When you guys decide to sell this thing for 9K less, give me a call." and walked away in disgust. Well to get to the point; first the last owner should be dragged into the street and beaten with a rubber hose. Second he should have to apologize to every True Mustang owner. And third I emailed the dealership that has it and made them an offer that was pretty rediculous. But I ended the email saying "laugh now, consider it later."
This could be the donar car that I would use to get my 03-04 Cobra motor, if I were to be so inclined.
But for now I'm still using a stroked 351!

 

[LUCAFU1]

i wish i had an extra cobra motor

 

[Edbert]

I have owned 6 different mod-motors, 4.6-2V/4.6-3v/4.6-4V/5.4-2V/5.4-3V. They were all great in the vehicle they came with. But for use in a classic I agree with this statement...

i don't think there is any practical reason for putting a mod motor in a classic 'stang considering all of the work involved. you're not going to get any more power. maybe a little better fuel economy (but i don't think that's what you're after). the parts definitely aren't any cheaper. i don't think there's any weight savings. and then you have to mess with all of the electronics involved and THAT is not going to be as easy as bolting in a 408W. the only reason to put on mod motor in a classic stang is because you want to. period. all you're doing now is trying to rationalize your decision.

Bottom line (for me)...
I can get to whatever power levels are desired with a 351W block easier and/or cheaper than I can with a mod-motor. My current 351W weighs less than a 289, and the 4.6-4V weighs about as much as an FE (big block). Then I can install it into my classic without messing up the chassis' integrity or handicapping my handling, both of which WILL happen if you chop the towers and don't spend $4K+ to get them (integrity and handling) back.