Alright so lately my radiator fan has been coming on immediately after turning the key on. The temperatures have been very cold and this is after the car has been sitting and fully cooled down. It is not a bad engine coolant temp sensor I checked that. I also occasionally hear clicking noises coming from the general location of the CCRM. This lead me to believe it could be a bad CCRM. Could that also cause crank but not start issues? The car is an '04 with 90k miles and mods include intercooled Vortech, 60# injectors, BAP, full exhaust, bolt ons, etc. etc. The car is my daily driver so I need to get this straightened out. Any help would be appreciated.
Radiator Fan Constantly Runs what could it be?
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wmburns
SN Certified Technician
The cooling fan and CCRM control system uses what is called "fail safe" mode. Which means that if the communications path between the CCRM and PCM is broken, the cooling fan will run in low speed mode. In other words, it takes a signal from the PCM to NOT run the fan.
This is the reason why the fan run whenever the PCM is flashed.
So.....if you are looking for a common cause to BOTH of your symptoms, try this. No power to the PCM! What could cause this? How about a faulty ignition switch?
Or course this could be a bad CCRM, bad PCM, or bad wiring.
My suggestion. Start by confirming constant +12 volts to the COP ignition circuit (RED wire). What you are looking for is if the power drops at any time the key is on.
A set of wiring diagrams could be a big help to this sort of trouble shooting.
This is the reason why the fan run whenever the PCM is flashed.
So.....if you are looking for a common cause to BOTH of your symptoms, try this. No power to the PCM! What could cause this? How about a faulty ignition switch?
Or course this could be a bad CCRM, bad PCM, or bad wiring.
My suggestion. Start by confirming constant +12 volts to the COP ignition circuit (RED wire). What you are looking for is if the power drops at any time the key is on.
A set of wiring diagrams could be a big help to this sort of trouble shooting.
Thanks a lot this is definitely a good idea. I will try and get my hands on a wiring diagram. Now as for the location of the COP ignition circuit. Is the red wire you are speaking of coming out of the CCRM?
wmburns
SN Certified Technician
Open the hood and look for any of the eight Coil on plug (COP) ignition modules. Each will have a RED power wire. Test for +12 volts there.
Or use an "add a fuse" and test for power at CJB fuse F2.8 and/or F2.8. This could be easier to set up while driving. If the power goes away, this "proves" that power is the reason for the problem.
Additional tests will be needed to narrow down to a bad CCRM or bad ignition. Use the "add a fuse" on CJB fuse F2.34. If power goes away at any time from this circuit, likely the ignition switch is the cause and the CCRM is OK.
If power never goes away from F2.34, then the odds favor a bad CCRM.
99-04 fuse panel layout
http://www.allfordmustangs.com/foru...r-swap-wont-fire-please-help.html#post2669271
Or use an "add a fuse" and test for power at CJB fuse F2.8 and/or F2.8. This could be easier to set up while driving. If the power goes away, this "proves" that power is the reason for the problem.
Additional tests will be needed to narrow down to a bad CCRM or bad ignition. Use the "add a fuse" on CJB fuse F2.34. If power goes away at any time from this circuit, likely the ignition switch is the cause and the CCRM is OK.
If power never goes away from F2.34, then the odds favor a bad CCRM.
99-04 fuse panel layout
http://www.allfordmustangs.com/foru...r-swap-wont-fire-please-help.html#post2669271
wmburns...Alright I am looking into picking up an "add a fuse" like you said. I have been perusing more posts and your name keeps coming up in the threads you honestly are a huge help thank you. Also while checking for a constant 12V to the COP the motor must be on correct. WIll simply having the key on produce 12V at the COP ignition modules?
Alright so I just checked my voltage at the COP (red wire) with a capacitor located on the head which I believe is in the same circuit according to another one of your posts. This is where it gets sort of weird. Most of the time (I checked multiple coils) I would see 12.04V which is what the battery was reading as well. However sometimes I would see a fluctuation. I wanted to make sure it wasn't just my hand being shaking with the probes on the multimeter but I don't believe that was the case. I would see a fluctuation of between 10.5-12.04V and sometimes I wouldn't get a reading and than magically I would see the correct 12.04V. Since checking things my CCRM and fan have also started acting different as well. Now when I turn the key on the fan will kick on for a second accompanied by a clicking noise from the CCRM but than the fan will turn off and the CCRM will stop clicking. I first noticed the clicking noise while hovering over the passenger side fender and realized that moving the CCRM with my hand would make the clicking start and stop. My CCRM was move when I installed the piping for my intercooler but to my knowledge is not internally grounded and I see no signs of damaged wire. However I will need to jack my car up and pull the wheel off to inspect things better. Any ideas Burns?
wmburns
SN Certified Technician
If moving the wiring harness to the CCRM makes it click, this is a symptom that should not be ignored. Focus there.
I remember helping someone else with a relocated CCRM. In there case, they found a loose connection at the CCRM edge connector. One of the pins was not fully inserted into the connector. The rest is history.
I remember helping someone else with a relocated CCRM. In there case, they found a loose connection at the CCRM edge connector. One of the pins was not fully inserted into the connector. The rest is history.
Alright here are some new results. I have not had a chance yet to pull the passenger side wheel off to access the CCRM to check for loose connections but this weekend I will. I am hoping like you said that it is a loose connection. I liked the idea of using the add a fuse to check the voltage so I picked one up and here are my results. Recently when I turn the key on the fan will kick on but only for about 10 seconds followed by some clicking from the CCRM and than the fan will turn off. I wanted to see what was happening during that time by checking the voltage. I initially suspected it could be an ignition issue but after checking F2.34 it always had 12V with the key on and around 14 I believe with the engine running. When I checked F2.2 & F2.8 I would get 11.68V while the fan was running but than it would climb up to 12V as the fan slowed and the clicking started. Once the fan and clicking stopped it would be at about 12.04V. You mentioned before that low voltage to the CCRM could cause the clicking noise. Does this seem to you like it could be a CCRM issue? Obviously I will know more once I can check the CCRM for loose connections but are there any other tests I should try in the meantime? Thanks again Mr. Burns!
wmburns
SN Certified Technician
11.4 is not low enough to cause the CCRM relay to bounce. So unless there is a bad ground to the CCRM, this is not the problem.
Remember that the CCRM is actually (4) relays. Ignition/PCM, low speed fan, high speed fan, and AC clutch.
IMO, your tests confirm that the PCM power is stable. However, there it's still likely that there's a problem in the Fan relay of the CCRM.
Remember that the CCRM is actually (4) relays. Ignition/PCM, low speed fan, high speed fan, and AC clutch.
IMO, your tests confirm that the PCM power is stable. However, there it's still likely that there's a problem in the Fan relay of the CCRM.
AHA! So today I ran into a new problem the car wouldn't start and it wasn't flooded it wasn't getting any fuel. It finally started accompanied by two codes: P0190 and P1233 I believe. However, I finally got a chance to take a better look at my CCRM and wound up removing it entirely from the harness. In doing so I poured out about 1 cup of water!!! I think that was the problem right there. So I just ordered a new CCRM and an inner fender plastic guard to replace my nonexistent one. Honestly most expensive mistake was not running one. Now I need a new CCRM and guard from ford. Going to be about $350 :/
Guys help me out, before I logged in and reading threads I noticed several reply words were underlined and red in color. I wanted to see more about "wiring diagrams", when I cliked on underlined/red wording I get a damn Chevrolet commercial. Is this how GM is trying to sell its crap? And how did some idiot hack onto your forums?
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