Raising Ride Height

[Prime Lord]

Yeah, you read that correctly. I've got FMS C-Springs, 245/45 Tires, 17x8 '99 Cobra wheels, 96+ spindles, Cobra brakes....oh...and WORN OUT struts.

Here's the problem....the front tires GRIND on the fenders under braking, cornering, bumps, you name it. And I mean GRIND...not just touch. The front is sitting about 1.5" lower than the back. (typical for C Springs) But it's just too low. Now, I still need a good alignment w/ my MM C/C plates, but I don't think I can put enough camber on these to clear the fender. So I want to actually raise the front back up a little.

So far I have 2 options....I already tried putting new urethane isolators in (had ZERO effect)

1) Swap in some stock springs to get the height back (cheap, but going backwards)

2) Spend my entire tax return plus some more getting MM Coil-overs w/ Bilstien's. (expensive but moving forwards)

Can anybody think of any other options? I really want to do the coil overs, but I don't know if I can justify blowing my entire return on them.

 

[DEFWISH]

im having some issues as well. mine's an 87, so it has less space in the fenders unlike the 90+. i have 17x8 split 5's and sn95 brakes all around. fms-c springs. 245/45's as well. it helped a bunch just slightly "flaring" ( i pulled on them ) the fenders a touch. considering rolling the insides too.

 

[Prime Lord]

Yeah, 87 here as well. I really don't want to roll the fenders. Anything I can do to avoid that would be chief.

 

[eighty9hatch]

I've got an 89 and have the same problem. Been looking for a decently priced set of coilovers to raise the front a little.

 

[LiquidGT]

Another option: get some 94-95 spindles, they dont stick the wheel out as much.

 

[stang&2Birds]

It depends what you want for a suspension! Do you want handling? Do you want it for looks (C springs)? Do you want it for qtr mile runs? Or, what?

For handling, Bullitt springs and their ~3/4" drop is near the limit you want to go. Going past ~1" drop on a Fox or sn95 screws up too many things from a real-life handling perspective. The roll center gets screwed up, the camber change (as the body squats/goes over a bump) gets screwed up more, the bumpsteer gets screwed up more, the jounce amount is too little for many real-life street bumps/ pot-holes/ speed-bumps, etc.

So, your best best is to just sell the C springs, and put in correctly designed springs for a Fox/sn95 - Bullitt/Mach1 springs. The C and B springs are some POS springs originally made for some POS Ford car that fit a Stang because Ford used the same basic spring design on most of it's car. Neither the C nor B spring were ever designed with a Mustang in mind.

Or, you also have the option to raise the front by ~0.45", by going with an ~1/4" Steeda spring spacer. I've been told that you can buy them from Steeda (?~$15 each?), but you have to call them. Or, buy an ~$120 Steeda X2 ball joint set and don't use the ball joints, just use the spacers that come in the kit.

FYI:
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/misc/Mustang1986_with_Mach1_springs/
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/tmp/OTC-spring-tool/

 

[Prime Lord]

I had never thought of bullitt springs....interesting. Front and rear? It seems to me that it would be a cost effective solution. Looking at the pictures of that '86...it looks like its over 1.5" taller than the C springs.

In response to your initial question...Handling. I would like to auto-x and have no desire to drag race (snooze). I'm gonna head to eBay and see if I can find some.

 

[stang&2Birds]

Yup, go with the fronts and back.

My car is very close to stock height. I have to be on my *86* to be able to "kinda/sorta" squeeze 245/45/17's on the front. Regardless of wheel or camber choice (I have cc plates), because of my smaller fender openings, at some wheel angles, I have less than 0.1" of clearance at some points. Plus, I run _wide_ 245 tires. Not some cheap *ss 245's that have a thread width closer to 225's. My 730's have a 8.6" thread width spec, and a 9.6" section width spec.

Having kick *ss brakes doesn't do any good if you have thinner tires on the front. The front does ~70% of the braking. I want as wide of a tire as I can fit on the front!


For auto-x, the Bullitt springs are a decent compromise for a street/auto-x car. 600lbs/in is near the limit that most people want to put up with for a street car. On the highway, my car is *great*!! On the POS New England city streets, it's, uhm, a suspension designed to make sure you never fall asleep.

For an even firmer ride, you could go with MM springs, or the 95 Cobra R springs (850).

 

[Prime Lord]

Okay, PPI has bullitt and Mach 1 springs at around $200/pair so thats a good solution until coil over money comes available. One more thing. I know that the fenders b/t 86 & 87 are different, so do you think the Steeda spacer is something that I'll need as well? Thx dude.

 

[Strype]

When you insert the larger springs make sure you do it from the 2 bolt side of the A arm

 

[Prime Lord]

I've inserted and removed springs from this car 4 times now.....the "2 bolt side?"

 

[stang&2Birds]

Okay, PPI has bullitt and Mach 1 springs at around $200/pair so thats a good solution until coil over money comes available. One more thing. I know that the fenders b/t 86 & 87 are different, so do you think the Steeda spacer is something that I'll need as well? Thx dude.

You can also find them on the classifieds and ebay. I think that PPI said that the "new" Bullitt/Mach1 springs are now the "same part number" from Ford. They differ by ~1/4" drop. And, I don't think it was worth Ford's time and cost to make and sell them both. So, that's something to be aware of. I *think* that "both" *new* springs are now the "lower" Builltt spring.

There are many factors in if a wheel/tire combo will fit. That's my latest pet peeve.

If a wheel/tire combo will fit depends on:
o spindles
oo Fox
oo 94/95
oo 96+


o Isolators
oo Original rubber top & bottom?
oo Poly up top & bottom?
oo Any isolator on the bottom (foolish not to have one - the metals will react and rust)


o Wheel (D178, R58, SN95, S197, x8, x9, 17" 16", 15", etc)


o The exact year and model of the tire that you're using. For example, the Blizzaks WS50's changed. WTF? My new ones are a little different (directional for one thing). And, when you're talking ~0.1" clearances, any change makes a difference. People seem to fit 225's pretty well, and most 235's. But, when you look at the thread width, and section width, you'll see that some 245's are closer to most 225s. And some 245s (like my 730/750) are wider than most 245s. Again, when you're talking tight tolerances, it all adds up.

o The POS Stang tolerances. If you don't have the factory OEM, never taken off fenders, then your tolerances are even worse. Even with factory tolerances, 0.1" is easily within the tolerances when you think of all of the tolerances of the fenders, lower brace, fender mounting height, K-frame alignment, and so on.


o Rolled fenders?

o And so on...

Yea, when you really get into the mechanical engineering details, it gets involved.
But, with the above said....
D178 rims with 245/45/17 tires on 94/95 spindles seem to fit on most 87+ cars with at most only a little interference on Stangs that have less than 1" drop. Of course, I'm assuming that you have the steering limiters.

Also, another thing to consider, with CC plates (and even without), with wider tires you have to be very careful about the tire rubbing on the brake hose that goes from the caliper to the hard-line on the frame. That interference is again dependent on many factors (ride height, wheels, tires, camber, etc).


Sorry, I'd love to be able to say yes or no. If you want that, go to the wheels forums on the corral. You can fit 315's on your Stang without ANY problem. Yup, I guess that means any Stang from 65-1/2 to 2008, and even with 18x11 rims. <rolleyes>

If you give me more info on the wheels (size, BS) and the tires (sect width, tread width), I can give you my "best guess". Basically, 225's and 235's fit pretty well. 245's and bigger get into fit problems. As I said, I care about handling and braking. So, having the biggest tire on the front is very important to me. That's why I run a summer only ultra performance tire on my Stang. I switch to Blizzaks for the winter all around so I can drive the car ~once a week when the weather is nice. I got sick of just watching my Stang sit for 4->5 months and not being able to drive it even when the weather and roads were nice. Running Bridgestone 730/750 tires in under 40F weather is like running across a busy road with your eyes blind. Yea, you'll make it some/many times. But, all it takes is once, and you're dead!

 

[stang&2Birds]

I've inserted and removed springs from this car 4 times now.....the "2 bolt side?"

"2 bolt side?", I'm also at a loss.

Fox FCA vs sn95 FCA:

 

[Prime Lord]

I'm with you on wanting the widest tire I can have. Thats the whole reason for doing all of these modifications, right? I ran 245 RE730's on my 16" wheels when I was 4-lug, so I know what you mean about them being a little wide and sloppy in cold weather. I've got some no-name tires on these '99 Cobra wheels at the moment, but I plan on swapping them from some Bridgestone's. I'm seriously contemplating a winter wheel/tire combo but I haven't made up my mind as to the type yet.

And yes, Isolators...MM Urethane upper AND lower.

I think it might be coming together.

 

[Prime Lord]

Only thing I found on eBay was a single set of fronts....not much good w/o the rears. Hrmm.

I've made a decision though....I'm going to take my refund, get these springs (and the spacers in case I need them), I've already got a brand new set of MM isolators, and buy a nice set of new front struts. Might even be some left over to get some tires.

Thx for your help 2birds.

EDIT:
Just reread your post, and forgive the n00bish-ness...but "steering limiters?" I figured something would have to be done about that, but I don't know how to limit the travel on a rack and pinion setup.

EDIT (again):
Just looking at PPI's website..they have a separate listing for 03-04 and 01 mach/bullitt springs.

2001 Bullitt front and rear spring set, these are "real deal!", very limited quantity, perfect for 1987-04 Mustangs!, new

those are going for $209 whereas they have a separate listing for 2003-04 Mach 1 Springs going for $205.

So I'm going to call them and see what the deal is with that.