Really Really need help with car not starting

[fivepointNO]

I think you're VERY close to having this running, and either your timing is off or you have a defective distributor(or a part within). You're getting fire and you have fuel and air... With correct timing, you should hear it running.

My best guess would go to either being 180* out or just a couple teeth off in either direction.

Just to make setting TDC easier, remove all plugs. I expect the dampner bolt to be either 15/16's or 7/8's and with the proper deepwell socket, you can turn over the engine slowly to verify proper positioning. Remember, when turning 180* to NOT move anything but the rotor position once the distributor is lifted. Getting backfires is significant because it usually means you're close. With that, consider turning the rotor only a couple teeth in either direction. You can make final timing adjustments by twisting the entire distributor once it's running, but short of running, you'll do no additional good in that adjustment.

Seems the advice so far is pretty spot on so... unless you have a faulty part in the distributor(which doesn't seem to be the case), proper timing should fire your engine, allowing that sweet rumble you seek.

I suggest you get and install the pointer before continuing. No sense driving yourself mad over that and it's an absolutely integral part of setting timing properly.

 

[gjz30075]

Check your oil level at this point. All this cranking with no firing could have put a significant amount of gas in the sump. When you get it fired up, don't run it for long. Shut it down, celebrate, and change the oil and filter.

 

[red66er]

Hey guys thanks for coming back to the post. I tried again today just for a couple of minutes and still nothing. Ya know I thought about the distributor being bad too. Even though it's a new one. I've gotten to the point where I am double and triple checking everything.

Does any one know of any other way to test the distributor other than just checking for spark on the plugs or is that simply the best way?

For what it's worth, I think it is some kind of timing issue too. It's just a real mother to try and figure out why I can't get it to fire even after setting it at TDC.

My timing pointer should be coming tomorrow so I will see if I can figure out how to put that on.

I did test resistance on the coil and that comes back ok.

After cranking a couple of times I do smell gas. Is it possible the carb is flooding things out or is that a stretch?

Lastly, does anyone have a picture of where the timing pointer is located on a 66 coupe? I've heard somewhere around the 1 o'clock area.

 

[gjz30075]

Yes, it could be flooded. Pull all the plugs and dry them out. If you've got spark on all the plugs, then your distributor is good.

Another test would be to crank it and have another person move the distributor throughout its range, slowly. Surely it'll fire somewhere or hear a distinct change in cranking power as it advances or retards.

 

[red66er]

Actually I'm able to crank it over and move the distributor on my own. I was just looking at the service manual and it shows where the number one firing point is actually pointing towards the general area of the number 8 cylinder.

This is the actual service manual and not Chiltons or one of the aftermarket books. They are also very specific in how the the number 7 cylinder spark plug wire gets route to the distributor.

 

[TeamEntity]

so your absolutley sure that when the number one piston is all the way on top aka tdc that the rotor is pointing to the number one plug wire on the dist. cap? Hell i have screwed up a four cylinder cap to plugs three times in a row until i went duh! and fired right up.

 

[red66er]

Yea, I been able to shine a flashlight and see the top of the cylinder. I also used one of those small mirrors and good lighting and looked in there on other occasions when I have set the TDC.

It's all so bizarre.

I did start thinking a little bit about what "fivepointno" said about moving the rotor 180 but leaving the distributor cap where it's at. That means that the rotor would point just before the number 5 cylinder and the orginal number 1 post on the distributor would still stay number one, is that right?

 

[red66er]

Hey Guys,

I went back and looked at some of my before pictures of the engine before I tore into it. The distributor cap has the number one cylinder lobe (terminal) pointing to the number 6 cylinder. This is a far cry from where I have the rotor currently set.

If I were to figure in timing degree error and being 180 off I guess this would put me close to that configuration.

Anyone else been that far off on a 289 or any engine for that matter?

 

[red66er]

Here's an update. Got the pointer today and installed it where I believed it needed to go according to pictures and the hole on the timing cover.

Then I was able to get the 1st cylinder to exactly TDC. Once I did that I actually positioned the rotor to where the the service manual and my pictures showed where it should be.

Tried to start it up and it sputtered like it wanted to start but never did. Now I am back to square one. It just cranks over and does nothing. Doesn't even act like it wants to start.

Let me ask something here. As I am cranking should I be giving it gas with the throttle? The few times I did it before it would eventually backfire extremely loud.

Hopefully someone will come back to this post and let me know.

 

[zigmont]

Wont start

Sounds like you are almost there. Just because the rotor is pointing at No. 1 doesn't mean that the spark is firing when it should. To check it out, hook up your timing light, point it at the balancer, and crank the engine. Note the position of the timing mark in reference to the pointer when the light flashes. Adjust (turn) the distributor until the pointer is just before TDC when the light flashes. Check to be sure the rotor is still pointing at No. 1. Tighten down the distributor. Now you are ready to start the engine.
Yes the engine needs extra gas to start. Look into the carb while you are moving the throttle to see if the accelerator pump is squirting gas into the engine. If it is, then pump the throttle a few times, hold the throttle partly open, and then try to start. If it sputters and dies, pump a couple more times and try again. Pumping while cranking is not as effective as pumping before you crank. If you think you might have flooded the engine, hold the throttle all the way open while cranking until the extra gas has cleared out of the engine and it starts.

 

[fivepointNO]

At this point, if it still won't start, you may simply have 8 fouled plugs(and it's likely considering the fuel soaking they got) or you may actually have a faulty distributor. Personally, I'm thinking the plugs should either be thoroughly cleaned or outright replaced and your timing is still off, but only by a tooth or two.

 

[red66er]

Hey guys thanks for posts.

I actually pulled a couple plugs yesterday and they didn't looked fouled but they were starting to get some black carbon type deposits on the white part.
I still am going to change the plugs any way though.

Also good advice for setting the distributor cap too. I am going to look at the valve lash on all the rockers again too. I have Harland roller rockers and I read where when properly set there should be no more than a couple threads showing from the stud. They are stud mount.

I find it interesting that when I have decided to set the TDC, and that has been many times now, that the first 2 or 3 seconds when I go to turn it over it rumbles as if it wants to start but then never does anything again except just crank.

This last time when I set the TDC with the pointer was the closest I have come to having it start. I hit the balancer to 6 degrees BTC which is what the service manual says it should be set at. That time it acted like it wanted to start for about 10 seconds but then went back to just cranking over again.

 

[Max Power]

This may have been mentioned, but what is the firing order of the cam? Are you using the old 302 firing order and the cam is the new 302/351 firing order?

 

[red66er]

Yeah it was mentioned but no prob. It's an Edelbrock set up and I called their tech support and they said that the original firing order was what to use. There instructions that were mailed along with the set up also confirmed this.

Here is what I discovered. I would pull the plugs and they would seem to fire just fine. Plenty of juice from the coil. This is all new stuff by the way.
However. I just came in from tryng to start it with no success again.

What I did this time though was to hookup my timing light to the number one cylinder to make sure that it was firing as the engine turned over.
Well, it wasn't. I'm pretty sure that if it wasn't firing that none of the others are firing either.

So here's the question. Why would the plugs spark out of the engine but once placed in the block they now don't fire anymore? By the way these are brand new plugs. I just replaced the ones I was using.

 

[red66er]

Oh yeah, the distributor and the coil are Flamethrower II. The distributor does have the built in ignitor II.

 

[Max Power]

Yeah it was mentioned but no prob. It's an Edelbrock set up and I called their tech support and they said that the original firing order was what to use. There instructions that were mailed along with the set up also confirmed this.

Here is what I discovered. I would pull the plugs and they would seem to fire just fine. Plenty of juice from the coil. This is all new stuff by the way.
However. I just came in from tryng to start it with no success again.

What I did this time though was to hookup my timing light to the number one cylinder to make sure that it was firing as the engine turned over.
Well, it wasn't. I'm pretty sure that if it wasn't firing that none of the others are firing either.

So here's the question. Why would the plugs spark out of the engine but once placed in the block they now don't fire anymore? By the way these are brand new plugs. I just replaced the ones I was using.

Is your engine ground strap still good? If you swapped heads, did you reconnect the ground strap from the back of the head to the firewall?

 

[mudbilly]

man,,,,,,,,,i am really rooting for that girl to fire up...............

but it must be getting good spark, because when you rotated 180,,,,,,you had the big back fire..........

i'm leaning toward the cam/crank not being syncd with the distributor ?????????

 

[Az Pete]

At this point, the thing I find that works is go back to the basics. It might be something simple, and overlooked. Don't just look, actually reset it all as if it was the first time....by the book.

 

[red66er]

Hey guys,

Yeah she is grounded like no other. I got one from the block to the firewall, from the starter to the neg. on the battery, from the battery to the sheetmetal and the battery to the actual metal hard frame.

Now, not only do I not get a spark when the plug is in the head I don't get one when the plug is pulled and grounded against the frame.

I'm thinking of sticking the old Dist. and coil back on to see if that makes any difference. I know the coil is still good cause the resistance falls within the specs and I still have the resistance wire ready to hook back up.

I was at least smart enough not to clip it off. I was going to wait until I got the car going.

Why did things quit sparking? When I test resistance on the distributor terminals I get nothing.

 

[red66er]

AZ Pete,

you know it's funny you should say that because that's what I did today. I checked and reset valve lash, new plugs checked connections and did find some that were suspect on the coil. So I fixed those. The list goes on and on.

Set TDC about 3 or 4 times and tried the rotor in several places at TDC that's when I discovered no spark at the plugs any more. It is not the new plugs either. They did spark the first couple of times and then it seems like something is either acting intermittengly with the electrical or it finally just crapped out.

Coil or Distributor