SN95 Sn95 351w Swap To 408 Stroker

tyboudreau

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Feb 23, 2017
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hey guys, so at the moment I have the factory 302 with 80,000 miles on the mustang. love the car but its to slow. So after this deployment I want to throw a a stroked 351w to 408 CID. looking for someone who's done the same thing as me and what they recommend. heres what I want:
1. Keeping the factory fuel injection system is a must.
2. budget is under 12k (the lower the better)
3. I want 550 WHP/TQ. max Tq at 4,000-4,500 Max HP at 5,250-5,500 looking for 160+mph at 5,500
4. Daily driven street car, would go to the track just to see what I get for time, no real 1/4 mike goals
5. No real hood clearance issues id like to get it to fit under the smallest cowl hood I can
6. Going to be hooked up to the T5 with A5 upgraded gears.
7. I want the car to run, with no check engine light.
8. The car will be N/A
9. desired CR 10.5-10.7 (pump gas)
10. rear gears are 3.73
11. doesn't need to pass emissions
12. its in a 1994 Ford Mustang gt 5 speed
/
so I have a few Qs to the community, and anything you have to add.
1. I have a complete running 351w in a 1993 ford bronco. (I'm also pretty sure its a hydro roller, even though people say 94+ was a roller)
A. Will everything thats on the 351w now work as a 408 stroker i.e. distributer, oil pump, water pump fuel rails, intake, accessories.
B. what fuel pump and injectors should I run with
C. What MAF and TB should I run with
2. should I use the 351w ECU and wires? heard the firing order is different
A. I plan on using the Megasquirt stand alone, will all my factory gauges work?
3. What H/C/I combo would work best for the desired numbers at the desired RPMs.
A. Do I need a cam that is made for EFI? Why?
B. Would like to save money where I can so an off the shelf cam for 300 sounds better than a 700 custom cam
4. Will Hooker 351w swap headers work or will they not fit
5. What sprak Plugs/gap, and ignition components will need to be upgraded?
5. What other upgrades am I going to need that I haven't thought of. can't find anyone making a thread on this in a GT. I plan to make a sticky when I do the build
 
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2000xp8

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Aug 8, 2003
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I personally don't think $12,000 is going to cut it.
550rwhp isn't going to come easy with daily driver drivability.
If you goto the track or use sticky tires of any sort i'd be concerned about anything in a t5 case.
The engine alone to produce that kind of power is going to use up at least nearly your entire budget.

You didn't speak of brakes or suspension either.
All that weight and power would be a death trap on a stock suspension and brakes.
You need other things too, like clutch and flywheel (probably a grand).
If that much power exceeds the stock fuel system, there's 2g's. (it may not in NA form)

I think you are going to need more like $20,000+ to build a complete drivable car, and that may even be a low number.

Here's a sample I read a while back.
$9000 into the engine alone and that's with a carb and nothing else.
That's 550 Flywheel hp, so probably like 475rwhp. Way short of your 550rwhp goal.

I think you are going to either have to rethink the budget or the goals.
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712phr-complete-408-stroker-engine-build/
 
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tyboudreau

Member
Feb 23, 2017
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12k budget is the motor and drivetrain. which I think is do-able. I crunched some numbers here and there and most of the things that don't require to be new I can get cheap for used. not saying you're wrong id just like to see what people here have spent and what they got for numbers and what they suggest on the sn95 408w NA.
 

Gear grabber

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May 23, 2016
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I would agree with 2000xp8,i don't see it for 12 k.
550 rwhp between 5250-5500 rpm na,thats not going to happen.
My street (not daily) 427 with moderate h/r is shifted at 6500.
I would not use a T5 at that power level.
 

Steel1

Mustang Master
Aug 18, 2017
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If you aren't in a rush you can find all kinds of deals piecing together the parts for your build,
there's some parts you can swap off your current 302.
If you do the assembly and install of the engine/trans minus the machine work for your existing
block 12k budget would be more than enough.
I built my 393w using a 1969 block with quality parts that I spent some time finding and did
it for under 3k, tranny not included.
 
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imp

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Dreamin', I'm always dreamin',
Hoping someday to find.........
Someone, someone to hold me,.....
Someone to love me.......
But until then..............
I gotta keep on dreamin'...............
Dreamin'........................
Till my dreams all come true!

Johnnie Burnette, 1960
 

tyboudreau

Member
Feb 23, 2017
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If you aren't in a rush you can find all kinds of deals piecing together the parts for your build,
there's some parts you can swap off your current 302.
If you do the assembly and install of the engine/trans minus the machine work for your existing
block 12k budget would be more than enough.
I built my 393w using a 1969 block with quality parts that I spent some time finding and did
it for under 3k, tranny not included.
thats exactly what I'm saying. the only thing is now I'm wondering if I'm better off putting a 408 stroker in a 70 mustang instead.
 

Noobz347

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Stop shooting for a number and build the motor you can afford.

You need a stout block with good internals
You need a blower
You need a transmission
You need an exhaust
You need a shifter
You need axles
You need a rebuilt trac-lok (31 spline)
You need to support it all with fuel
Oh, and a girdle for the axle housing along with all new bearings and shims.
This is $12k+

Outside of the drivetrain:
You need chassis stiffening
You need brakes
You need suspension
Control arms
All new bushings
springs and shocks
Misc other ...


Build it, install it, tune it, and see the outcome. It's probably more than you can put down to the ground without a mini-tub and specialized suspension.
 
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nelzfoxes

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Aug 20, 2013
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I am building a street car also and for me a mild fuel injected 351 should suffice, but if you can afford it (I can’t), a 408 sounds awesome!
 

RaggedGT

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Stop shooting for a number and build the motor you can afford.

You need a stout block with good internals
You need a blower
You need a transmission
You need an exhaust
You need a shifter
You need axles
You need a rebuilt trac-lok (31 spline)
You need to support it all with fuel
Oh, and a girdle for the axle housing along with all new bearings and shims.
This is $12k+

Outside of the drivetrain:
You need chassis stiffening
You need brakes
You need suspension
Control arms
All new bushings
springs and shocks
Misc other ...


Build it, install it, tune it, and see the outcome. It's probably more than you can put down to the ground without a mini-tub and specialized suspension.
Very good advice-very fitting for many threads around here :)
 

revhead347

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Have you looked into a 4 bolt 302 block, like a 363 crate engine? I've been down this road before. A 4 bolt 302 block is a lot better than a 2 bolt 351 block. You can rev it higher to get the power out of it, and it is a lot less likely to crack. It's more likely to fit under the hood, and you don't get nickel and dimed to death with swap parts. If you are on a budget, I would at least look into it.

Kurt
 

nelzfoxes

5 Year Member
Aug 20, 2013
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Have you looked into a 4 bolt 302 block, like a 363 crate engine? I've been down this road before. A 4 bolt 302 block is a lot better than a 2 bolt 351 block. You can rev it higher to get the power out of it, and it is a lot less likely to crack. It's more likely to fit under the hood, and you don't get nickel and dimed to death with swap parts. If you are on a budget, I would at least look into it.

Kurt
So you were going to 351 and ended up 4 bolt crate stroker 302? Link to thread? Sounds awesome!
 

revhead347

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So you were going to 351 and ended up 4 bolt crate stroker 302? Link to thread? Sounds awesome!
No thread. I've priced the differences before. I was actually offered basically an entire 351 for free when my last stroker died, and it was still cheaper to build another stroker (minus a few parts I had) than to get a 351 in the car. I have a 2 bolt stroker engine right now.

Kurt
 

nelzfoxes

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Aug 20, 2013
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I gotcha! It’s too late for me. I have already accumulated most of what I need for 351, and I want to see if there is anything to the old long rod myth (higher compession leads to more power on 87 octane with a smooth idle, compared to stock 351). I know strokers make more for less, but for a sleeper type car...
 

a91what

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Luckily the ems you have chosen is cheap and more than capable....

Injectors 50lbers
I would run a walboro gss255hp pump.
Stock fuel rails will be taxed

I do all things megasquirt related in my signature is the link for out help and tech threads.

Welcome to the community.
 

2000xp8

SN Certified Technician
Aug 8, 2003
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No thread. I've priced the differences before. I was actually offered basically an entire 351 for free when my last stroker died, and it was still cheaper to build another stroker (minus a few parts I had) than to get a 351 in the car. I have a 2 bolt stroker engine right now.

Kurt
The reality is that a 2 bolt 347 is enough for most NA setups.
The better block is superior for high rpms, but that has a cost, a $2000 block, solid lifters, cam, rockers etc.

My buddy used to use ford B block (yes I know the b is little to no better) hyper piston 347 ford racing shortblocks. $2200.
Top it off with a good h/c/I and they were 425rwhp engines on a fair budget, with a warranty for the bottom end.

A few of the guys, ran 10's low 11's with them, all motor in full weight street cars.

IMO, any 351 that doesn't make 450rwhp+ (which isn't many) isn't worth the effort.

I don't think the injectors or rails would be taxed in NA form.
I've seen 30's make 477rwhp at 7500rpm NA
 

revhead347

I have face herpes.
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The reality is that a 2 bolt 347 is enough for most NA setups.
The better block is superior for high rpms, but that has a cost, a $2000 block, solid lifters, cam, rockers etc.

My buddy used to use ford B block (yes I know the b is little to no better) hyper piston 347 ford racing shortblocks. $2200.
Top it off with a good h/c/I and they were 425rwhp engines on a fair budget, with a warranty for the bottom end.

A few of the guys, ran 10's low 11's with them, all motor in full weight street cars.

IMO, any 351 that doesn't make 450rwhp+ (which isn't many) isn't worth the effort.

I don't think the injectors or rails would be taxed in NA form.
I've seen 30's make 477rwhp at 7500rpm NA
It's a toss up. A 4 bolt Dart block is about $1400. Add shipping and lifter bore honing, I get it; $2k is a reasonable budget. It's easily as much money to get a 351 in there. Special intake, special headers, different engine mounts, special distributor. etc, etc. That list goes on for quite awhile.

My biggest regret on my last engine build was not going to a 4 bolt block. I had a cracked block, and I was right there. I'd have put a second kit on it had I done a 4 bolt block.

If it makes you feel any better, I am basically making 500hp to the tire with a stock block, 30lb injectors, and stock fuel rails at 5600rpms.

Kurt