Sn95 vs Fox: Lets talk rust

Essn95

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Come to think of it, I have yet to see a rusty sn95. Was there some sort of coating or treatment from the factory? Or just better water dissipation. I have looked at three foxes this week as a project to swap a 351 into. A calypso green vert 1992, total rust bucket, shock towers, floors, every single body panel had rust. 1993 calypso hatch, same thing. An 86 notch 2.3L, not as bad as these three but enough to make me steer clear, inside the passenger door and fender where they meet was rotten, spare tire well, holes in floorboard etc. Now looking to do a miata or porsche 944. It's a shame so many foxes are mistreated. Just wondering on the sn95 rust thing also, just thinking out loud.
 
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Essn95

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Not to mention the calypso vert had 52k miles and was a show winner in 2016. That hurt my heart to see it go from show car to parts car in 4 years
 

Essn95

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Mustang5L5

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They still rust. I looked at a 95 Cobra for a buddy since it was local to me about a month ago. I could see both sides of the engine from outside of the car. It was baaaaad.


One observation though after dissecting my rusted rail, and the 99-04 donor rail I am using. They are constructed differently. You know that middle 3rd hole that doesn't have a bolt running through it? Well, on the fox, there is a center support, and some support structure internal to the rail to help hold that all together. This is completely absent on the 99-04 rail. No center support post, and no support structure to hold it. You just have the tubes for the bolts. When I dissected my fox rail that was rotted out inside, it was all filled with sand, with nowhere to get out. On the 99-04 rail, that bottom hole is open. Sand/water can get out.
 
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Mustang5L5

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Here;s some pics of the frame rail of a 99-04. This is the middle hole between the two K-member bolt holes. As you can see from the pic, it's wide open into the box frame of the rail. Hard to photograph, but i can definitely tell you any moisture that gets in here has a easy path to drain or dry out.

Go look on a fox body. There's a center sleeve in this spot, and if you were to cut it open, various metal supports holding it and the two side parts up.


As to when this change happened? No idea. Those of you with SN95's might want to go stick a finger in your rail and see if this center hole has a support. I bet the change was around 1996 as i can remember seeing quite a few rusted 94/95's.





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Mustang5L5

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Here's a 94/95. They do rust out

 
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revhead347

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Foxes are still on the road and being restored 30 years later. No one wants to restore an Sn95 so you dont see as many except being parted out. lol

Car restorations are generational. Everyone wants what was cool when they were in high school. I'd never go back to a Fox after owning an SN. It's basically the same car, but the build quality on the SN is a whole generation better. There's something that changed in that brief period of time. Whatever manufacturing techniques that were applied to the interior, or make the car accelerate straight instead of fish taling all over the road were clearly applied to the body as well. I parted ways with my last Fox in 1999. It was really starting to fall apart at the ripe age of 6. My SN is in much better condition at 25 years old than my last Fox was. I loved both my Foxes for what they were, but at the end of the day, the cars squeaked all the time.

Kurt
 

Mustang5L5

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Would have to agree. I owned a 2003 and it was a much better car than a fox. I don’t understand the hate for them.

but that means they are cheap, and one day I might grab myself a ckean 96-01 cobra convertible as a driver.
 
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JD08

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The front edge on the 2005-2014 Mustang aluminum hoods corrodes when they're only a few years old. All cars rust.
 

revhead347

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The front edge on the 2005-2014 Mustang aluminum hoods corrodes when they're only a few years old. All cars rust.

You are talking about the "Mustang II" of our generation. Those cars can't be turned into Mountain Dew cans fast enough.

Kurt
 

JD08

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You are talking about the "Mustang II" of our generation. Those cars can't be turned into Mountain Dew cans fast enough.

Kurt
That's the 05-09 and I agree. The 10-14 had the same problem. I haven't seen it on my 17 and haven't heard it was a problem.
 

revhead347

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That's the 05-09 and I agree. The 10-14 had the same problem. I haven't seen it on my 17 and haven't heard it was a problem.

Soft times create soft people, hard times create hard people. The SN was built at the last moment by committed enthusiasts to keep the Mustang from being a 4cyl FWD car (Probe). The S197 was built in the opposite circumstance, and was completely lack luster.

Kurt
 

Essn95

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I never understood the hate for sn95. I know looks are subjective but performance wise except for weight the sn is superior in every way, chassis, brakes etc. It’s a fox chassis, but well better. Interesting insight on the frame rail holes, never noticed that.
on another note, if I can get father approval I found a nice looking fox in Miami. One owner, 100k miles. Teal on gray. Owner says just one rust hole on hatch but we will see. Good price and seems like an honest, neglected car. It’s bone stock. Time to convince my pops to take on another project.
 
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91TwighlightGT

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Sn95's rust out big time. Look at the quarter panels on any New Edge car that has been outside - I've seen into the trunk on a few of them.

@Essn95 - It's all the looks. They are just really rounded and it makes them look fat, especially in the quarter panel area. 94-98's are just not attractive. They made huge improvements with the New Edge refinements in '99. Outside of the Fox, my favorite Mustang is still the '00 Cobra R.
 

elarm1

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That's the 05-09 and I agree. The 10-14 had the same problem. I haven't seen it on my 17 and haven't heard it was a problem.
My brother has a 2018 Ecoboost in Germany and the hood has started to corrode. He has talked to Ford and they will cover the damage.
 

revhead347

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I never understood the hate for sn95. I know looks are subjective but performance wise except for weight the sn is superior in every way, chassis, brakes etc..

It's a weight myth. If you take an equally equipped 93" Mustang GT and compare it with an equally equipped 94' Mustang GT, there is only 150lbs difference. The weight myth comes from what a normally equipped car came with in 93' vs what a normally equipped car came with in 94'. The 94' had 4 wheel disk brakes standard, and 2 airbags instead of 1. That's 50ls right there. Most of the remaining 100lbs weight difference comes from chassis enhancements. For example, the A-frame on an SN is double rolled steel to protect the occupants from a roll over collision. The interior door panels on a Fox are basically popped onto the inner sheet metal with garbage hardware. On the SN, the panels are attached with heavy plastic hooks corrogated into the interior panel itself.

If you really wanted to build an all out performance car, the SN wins hands down against the Fox. As for styling, the Fox shares the same lines with Chrysler K-car. The SN has so much more body definition.

Kurt
 

91TwighlightGT

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It's a weight myth. If you take an equally equipped 93" Mustang GT and compare it with an equally equipped 94' Mustang GT, there is only 150lbs difference. The weight myth comes from what a normally equipped car came with in 93' vs what a normally equipped car came with in 94'. The 94' had 4 wheel disk brakes standard, and 2 airbags instead of 1. That's 50ls right there. Most of the remaining 100lbs weight difference comes from chassis enhancements. For example, the A-frame on an SN is double rolled steel to protect the occupants from a roll over collision. The interior door panels on a Fox are basically popped onto the inner sheet metal with garbage hardware. On the SN, the panels are attached with heavy plastic hooks corrogated into the interior panel itself.

If you really wanted to build an all out performance car, the SN wins hands down against the Fox. As for styling, the Fox shares the same lines with Chrysler K-car. The SN has so much more body definition.

Kurt


There is no doubt that the SN has better technology - as it should. You should never build a new car that is worse than the old car, after all.

Still, stock for stock the SN was slower than the Fox in a straight line, and in that era the Mustang was always considered a straight line car. Historically, we should all be happy that there was a '94 Mustang at all because as we all know Ford had it's head on the block and was sharpening the axe right up to the presidential pardon :)

Reading about the history of the SN95 project and how it came together on a bare bones budget is actually pretty interesting, and realistically it was the best thing that ever happened to Fox owners because so many of those newer suspension pieces can be backdated into our vehicles.

With all that said, I will maintain that the reason the SN95 remains unpopular is twofold. First, the relatively low performance of the car hurt it a lot. Whichever way you cut it, the 94-95 5.0L car was slower to 60 MPH and in the 1/4 Mile than the 93 5.0L. On top of that, it was going up against the 93 Camaro/Firebird which was already stomping the 93 GT, and the expectation was that Ford would offer more competition with the 94 redesign. It took buying the Cobra to be competitive with the Z28, the GT simply had no chance. To make matters worse, in '96 Ford rolled out the 4.6L V8. This engine had even lower performance and the already slow Mustang GT got even slower! Again, stepping up to the Cobra was a world of difference, but it was also quite a bit more expensive, and they only made a limited number.

Second, while we can say styling is subjective, that is only true on the individual level. It's pretty rare that you see a car that is considered ugly by the majority of people command a high price. The SN95 rounded, bloated style is surrounded by the iconic 87-93 Fox (polarizing, but still widely liked) and the 99-04 New Edge which the majority would agree is the better looking compared to the 94-98. On top of that, with the PI heads and intake the 4.6l went from embarrassing to respectable, even if it was still easily crushed by the Z28 in stock form.

The SN95 will have some sought after pieces. 94-98 Cobra's will still bring some money in nice condition, although they will lag compared to similar condition '93 models (single model year run guarantees this more than anything) as well as 99 and 01 models. 03-04 Cobras are their own animal.

Other collectible SN95's... Saleen S351's, 95 Cobra R (obviously) and the Removable Hardtop Cobra Convertibles.
 
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