So Confused On Trick Flow Heads?

[Boosted92LX]

Allen, I find it interesting how whenever you're butt hurt with me, you look for any opportunity you can to follow me around the site and throw your .02. The fact that it was my post you singled out of the group of people that questioned this fellow lends further proof to your agenda. I’m sure we’ve gone down this road once or twice before and my automotive resume is out there for all to see….yet, here you are again..adding nothing to the conversation but gasoline and a match. Weren’t you the one who behind closed doors, demanded to staff that Shaoline Crane be removed from this site for doing just this thing to you just a few short months ago? How short our memory has become!

To be honest, I really don't care where he's a tech. He was brash, condescending and basically called anyone that hasn’t done it, an idiot. Had he offered a little insight, or explanation to further his claims instead of the sarcasm he may have been taken more seriously and not gotten the responses he did, but he chose to lead with you’re a “F’n moron” instead. Now, I’ve not seen a single person come anywhere close to the OP’s requested 330-350rwhp levels with a junkyard GT40 top end, cam and stock stroke….let alone with ease and I’m betting you haven’t either? Many are struggling to see 300rwhp with these top end parts. If someone has any hard data to prove otherwise, I invite them to post it up for all to see, instead of lashing out at those who would remain skeptical. When making claims like that, with an attitude to boot….put up, or shut us is often the most appropriate response.

As for your 330rwhp claim through a set of 289 hi-po heads on a stock stroke 302 (you know…since that’s what we’re talking about after all)….well….see above. You gonna share your secrets with the rest of us, or just wow us leave us hanging in amazement? Tell us how you were able to extract 50-75hp more from your engine than the rest of us dummies?

I really don’t care to argue with you Allen. I mean really…it sounds like you showed up in this thread more to talk ****, than you did to talk shop? Got an issue with me, register it with the complaint department. As for lxman….I’m dying to know what was involved in making these horsepower figures. I mean besides a little porting and time. You know…for all us F’n morons who can’t tune, or build our “crap” right? Seriously though…sarcasm aside, what’s the secret? I’ve got the GT40 top end, the die grinder ready and an open mind to use any cam grind you recommend. Don’t leave us hanging man. If I can best the Trick Flow top end horsepower figures by 20-30hp with a set of junk yard heads/intake, custom cam and some tuning I’m all ears and smiles.

You're funny. You say you don't wan't to argue with me, but the fact is that everytime you get the chance you do just that..haha. I didn't just show up in this thread to crap talk you, I haven't been around in weeks BECAUSE of you, and I only spoke up because IMHO, this guy isn't wrong.
As I said in the last thread you hammered me in the engine was a 351W.. not a 302, and it is possible, Brian. Just because the bolt on brigade says it won't work don't make it so. Wanna know how to do it? Spend a lifetime listening to people instead of trashing them on the internet.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

You're funny. You say you don't wan't to argue with me, but the fact is that everytime you get the chance you do just that..haha. I didn't just show up in this thread to crap talk you, I haven't been around in weeks BECAUSE of you, and I only spoke up because IMHO, this guy isn't wrong.
As I said in the last thread you hammered me in the engine was a 351W.. not a 302, and it is possible, Brian. Just because the bolt on brigade says it won't work don't make it so. Wanna know how to do it? Spend a lifetime listening to people instead of trashing them on the internet.

Just remember who is seeking out who in these little spats we have. I don't recall calling out your name at any point in this thread before you jumped it?

In any case....you made 330rwhp with a 351W....that's stellar, but we weren't talking about a 351W in this thread. The claims he made I disputed, revolved around a stock stroke 302W making those power levels, not a 351W doing it. Not sure if you bothered to read it or not, but my suggestion to the OP if he wanted to make power with mild parts, was to add displacement to the mix....just as you're claiming now. The next time you decide to lash out at me....check to make sure there's actually a reason to be argueing....k.

 

[NIKwoaC]

For one, I would guess that later on pistons would be easier to deal with. You can't just throw any ol' piston in an engine and then slap twisted wedge heads on it with a big cam. They have to be twisted wedge specific. Look through Coast High Performance's engine kits, one version offers pistons for inline valves, which are growing on trees... and the other version is for the canted TW heads.. I would sure hate to severely limit myself to one brand like that incase I tore something up like dropping a valve, and was forced to have to pick up something cheap.

Don't get me wrong, twisted wedges are great heads, but they're not the end all-be all a lot of people on here think. I mean like it was stated before, 13.XX @ 106 mph? Damn, I'd be pissed if I spent that kind of money and that's all it did... Just sayin...

Alright, I'm not going to feed the retarded AFR VS Trick Flow argument because frankly, it's as old as time itself and it's a tard fight. But since this is the second time my car has come under fire in this thread, I'll speak a little to that: First off Allen, it went 109, not 106. Second, it's not a racecar, the damn wheels weigh 28 lbs a piece (yea, you read that right). Third, I never intended that engine to be something that would set the world on fire, it was simply an exercize to prove you CAN put 300+ CFM heads and an "R" intake on a stock 302 without hurting streetability. And you know what, it idles at 700 RPM, pulls like a freight train to the limiter, and hazes the tires just rolling into the throttle. So while my car may not melt minds at the drag strip, it does what I set out to do. Plus, I could build a stout stroker bottom end for this car and make 10 second power with the same heads and intake, not a lot of 302 guys can say that about the top end on their engines.

 

[Boosted92LX]

Just remember who is seeking out who in these little spats we have. I don't recall calling out your name at any point in this thread before you jumped it?

In any case....you made 330rwhp with a 351W....that's stellar, but we weren't talking about a 351W in this thread, we were talking about a 302W. The claims he made I disputed, revolved around a stock stroke 302W making those power levels, not a 351W doing it. Not sure if you bothered to read it or not, but my suggestion to the OP if he wanted to make power with mild parts, was to add displacement to the mix....just as you're claiming now. The next time you decide to lash out at me....check to make sure we're actually of opposing views the next time....k.

UMMMM... the last time I said I made that kind of HP with stock heads period all of the sheep in the thread jumped on me, including you.. but whatever, captain wiggle out of the spotlight...

 

[Boosted92LX]

Alright, I'm not going to feed the retarded AFR VS Trick Flow argument because frankly, it's as old as time itself and it's a tard fight. But since this is the second time my car has come under fire in this thread, I'll speak a little to that: First off Allen, it went 109, not 106. Second, it's not a racecar, the damn wheels weigh 28 lbs a piece (yea, you read that right). Third, I never intended that engine to be something that would set the world on fire, it was simply an exercize to prove you CAN put 300+ CFM heads and an "R" intake on a stock 302 without hurting streetability. And you know what, it idles at 700 RPM, pulls like a freight train to the limiter, and hazes the tires just rolling into the throttle. So while my car may not melt minds at the drag strip, it does what I set out to do. Plus, I could build a stout stroker bottom end for this car and make 10 second power with the same heads and intake, not a lot of 302 guys can say that about the top end on their engines.

Oh, my apologies! 109 it is!

missed that there..

 

[Gearbanger 101]

UMMMM... the last time I said I made that kind of HP with stock heads period all of the sheep in the thread jumped on me, including you.. but whatever, captain wiggle out of the spotlight...

Actually, if you'd like to go back and check you post history, your claims back then were almost 400hp, not 330hp....captain "selective memory"....big difference. Also, last time I checked, ported heads were no longer considered "stock"?

Damnit...here you go, sucking me in again.

 

[fiveohlover]

ok with all this afr vs tfs stuff. I just want to know what head will make the most power for 1500 bucks, and that i can run a trick flow track heat manifold and a andeson n-41 cam on a stock 302 bottom end and pistons, and not have any clearance problems and that i also can shift it at about 6200-6500 rpm

 

[bikefreak600]

i am not getting mixed up in what ever you guys have going on. but if the previous responses were aimed at me....... i NEVER once told anyone to use a STOCK cam. better re-read my post. i would not suggest even discussing a cam until he has the rest of the car worked out. anyone who picks out a cam before the fact.... well that speaks for itself lol

99. % of every gt40 headed engine is garbage. just because some have spent the time & money porting junk heads to get average performance DOES NOT make it feasible for the average car enthusiast looking for a bolt together engine. someone will read 400 hp and gt40 in the same thread, then go tell everyone that he heard a pro engine builders use gt40s, people will buy them not knowing better, then the ford bashing plague will never end. its best to just say leave them for stock budget rebuilds.

i also provided a link in a previous post flow charts on the trickflow site. they have them for every engine.

to fiveohlover.... i also said that either of the heads you wanted will work. they are comparable and close in price. cant go wrong with either

 

[Boosted92LX]

Actually, if you'd like to go back and check you post history, your claims back then were almost 400hp, not 330hp....captain "selective memory"....big difference. Also, last time I checked, ported heads were no longer considered "stock"?

Damnit...here you go, sucking me in again.

We (the guys I raced with and myself) calculated roughly 485HP on a 150 shot doing 10.57 @ 127 mph... That means 330 to the tire on motor...Hows that?? And don't say the word "suck" while you're wiggling. It makes you look ridiculous.

I had to call my old friend and make sure that was correct. My memory sucks.

 

[stykthyn]

I wont say gt40 headed engines are garbage, but they were never part of OP's question. gt40 heads(even irons) have their place and make stout combos when done properly. That aside I am with bikefreak, either of the aforementioned AFR's will make the power you want with the parts you have listed. Out of curiousity whats the intent for the car and the rest of the parts list look like?
I have a buddy thats on a N/a quest for 350hp and he has no intentions of ever hitting a track.

 

[RangerJoe]

ok with all this afr vs tfs stuff. I just want to know what head will make the most power for 1500 bucks, and that i can run a trick flow track heat manifold and a andeson n-41 cam on a stock 302 bottom end and pistons, and not have any clearance problems and that i also can shift it at about 6200-6500 rpm

I'm sure you will, but check your piston to valve clearances. I looked at the N41 when doing my rebuild, before the stroker came into play. I was looking at milling my GT40's .030-.040. I talked to Rick Anderson about this and he told me that his "stock piston" cams are designed to take advantage of all the clearance there is when using stock pistons, and that I would not have enough clearance. This was with stock valve sizes. You may want to give him a call after you select your heads and run it by him. His cams are awsome from what I've seen, but for another $50 you can go custom. Good luck with it.

Joe

 

[fiveohlover]

I wont say gt40 headed engines are garbage, but they were never part of OP's question. gt40 heads(even irons) have their place and make stout combos when done properly. That aside I am with bikefreak, either of the aforementioned AFR's will make the power you want with the parts you have listed. Out of curiousity whats the intent for the car and the rest of the parts list look like?
I have a buddy thats on a N/a quest for 350hp and he has no intentions of ever hitting a track.

I want the car to be a hot street car that i will drive on weekends. and will see that track mabey 1 or twice a month and that will run mid 12 in the 1/4 mile consistently. I am getting 4.10 gears, sub frame connecters , control arms, and full bolt ons.

 

[fiveohlover]

also if i get a custom cam, who should i order it from?

 

[Gearbanger 101]

We (the guys I raced with and myself) calculated roughly 485HP on a 150 shot doing 10.57 @ 127 mph... That means 330 to the tire on motor...Hows that??

I'd say that was a very optimistic guess at best. You can't possibly believe that to be an accurate way of determining the engines horsepower?!? Nitrous adds it own measured amount of oxygen and fuel to the engine compensating for imperfections and flow limitations of the head and intake. It's impossible to make an accurate calculation by mathematically subtract the amount of nitrous from the total engine output and deem that the actual engine horsepower. Never mind that nitrous horsepower ratings on their own are always a "best guess" by the manufacturer to begin with.

And that's assuming your calculations based on your 60ft, 1/8th mile, 1/4-mile, trap speeds, elevation, barometric pressure, air temperature, vehicle weight, drag, etc were accurate....which again, provides a ballpark figure to begin with. And again, not to keep throwing salt on old wounds here, but 330hp to the tire, is still a way's off from the "touching 400hp" statement you made in the previous thread, don't you think?

It's a shame you never really got that vehicle to an actual engine/chassis dyno to see just how much horsepower it really made. I'm not saying you guys were totally out to lunch, but those calculation could be out as much as 50-60hp based on the variables above alone. It's certainly not an accurate enough way of measuring output to make the beyond a shadow of a doubt claims that you did and created such a fuss about it?

And again....you guys were doing what you did with this car utilizing 351 cubic inches of displacement....not 302 cubic inches like lxman claimed it could "easily" be done with. I mean....you can't possibly believe a set of junk yard GT40's...even ported would flow such a superior amount of air to your ported 289 Hi-po castings that it would allow the engine to match or exceed horsepower figures with yours previous effort, that utilized almost 50-less cubic inches?!?

 

[stykthyn]

I would say for the goals you have listed you are over building. Ed Curtis and Jay Allen are two of the best cam grinders out there.

 

[lxman]

I got pissed and had sarcaasm and that crap because you guys bashed me first. so hell no im not going to tell you guys. and of course you are all going to think im lying or some bs cuz im not going to tell you. I read a lot of the post on here at just laugh. i would love to help people out but everyone on here has the attutide of well since i couldnt figure it out and threw in the towel you should to. Sorry guys i dont work that way. So i will just keep working on my stuff for people that want to go fast and our NMCA dragsters.

 

[Boosted92LX]

I'd say that was a very optimistic guess at best. You can't possibly believe that to be an accurate way of determining the engines horsepower?!? Nitrous adds it own measured amount of oxygen and fuel to the engine compensating for imperfections and flow limitations of the head and intake. It's impossible to make an accurate calculation by mathematically subtract the amount of nitrous from the total engine output and deem that the actual engine horsepower. Never mind that nitrous horsepower ratings on their own are always a "best guess" by the manufacturer to begin with.

And that's assuming your calculations based on your 60ft, 1/8th mile, 1/4-mile, trap speeds, elevation, barometric pressure, air temperature, vehicle weight, drag, etc were accurate....which again, provides a ballpark figure to begin with. And again, not to keep throwing salt on old wounds here, but 330hp to the tire, is still a way's off from the "touching 400hp" statement you made in the previous thread, don't you think?

It's a shame you never really got that vehicle to an actual engine/chassis dyno to see just how much horsepower it really made. I'm not saying you guys were totally out to lunch, but those calculation could be out as much as 50-60hp based on the variables above alone. It's certainly not an accurate enough way of measuring output to make the beyond a shadow of a doubt claims that you did and created such a fuss about it?

And again....you guys were doing what you did with this car utilizing 351 cubic inches of displacement....not 302 cubic inches like lxman claimed it could "easily" be done with. I mean....you can't possibly believe a set of junk yard GT40's...even ported would flow such a superior amount of air to your ported 289 Hi-po castings that it would allow the engine to match or exceed horsepower figures with yours previous effort, that utilized almost 50-less cubic inches?!?

Now ya see? I told you you'd argue with whatever data I threw out there. Take my numbers I gave you and plug them into any hp calculator and you'll see they are pretty damn close. Elevation? I'm 20ft above sea level. It's perfect. And I don't know where your're getting your info about nitrous ratings being best guess. I've seen so many dyno runs before and after nitrous they're usually + or - 5HP tops. Hell, the muscle car guys even did it on Spike TV to show how accurate it is.... As I said before, just because you can't do it, don't mean it's wrong, it means YOU CAN'T DO IT... this is beginning to bore me..I think I'm going to go throw a stick for my dog.. he's better company.

 

[Boosted92LX]

I got pissed and had sarcaasm and that crap because you guys bashed me first. so hell no im not going to tell you guys. and of course you are all going to think im lying or some bs cuz im not going to tell you. I read a lot of the post on here at just laugh. i would love to help people out but everyone on here has the attutide of well since i couldnt figure it out and threw in the towel you should to. Sorry guys i dont work that way. So i will just keep working on my stuff for people that want to go fast and our NMCA dragsters.

And that, my friend is why the slow stay slow...LOL

 

[lxman]

Either head will work bud, with the intake you are wanting. You can call comp cams or any good cam grinder and tell them what parts you have what you are looking for and so on and they should at that point alreadyu have a good starting point in m ind then work the rest out with you. So for a cam grinder thats up to you i guess. call around and see what people can do for you.

 

[bikefreak600]

I would say for the goals you have listed you are over building. Ed Curtis and Jay Allen are two of the best cam grinders out there.

+1 Ed Curtis , joe sherman knows his stuff. i hear raves about bullet, FTI. and i think jay is out the biz now. what about mr Jon Kasse i think he does custom cams. not many people know fords better than him !