Progress Thread So Much For HRLII, Welcome Back ElSuperPinto!

MustangIIMatt

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If anyone was wondering about that Chinese-made Mustang II radiator sold on eBay... It's damned good... Hell, it's effin fantastic.

It has been 105+ degrees every day this week except today, when it was 102. I hadn't driven the II in a couple weeks, so I decide to drive it home for lunch.

It's five miles of stop-and-go, and I knew it would be hot and miserable, but still needed to run it for a bit.

It got hot halfway between the shop and apartment, 215, 220, 230, 250... And stopped at 250 and held there before traffic started moving and it got back to 230 and held there. I'm cursing that Chinese radiator for not being good enough because the smaller Summit universal I had before never got above 220. I let it cool off while I eat lunch with the girlfriend, and drive it gently back to the shop, running right at 210-230 the whole way. When I get there, I open the hood and discovered that my fan isn't working because the fuse and fuse holder are a molten lump. I don't know if the fan seized and caused the wiring damage or if the fuse Derale included with their controller was just that crappy (haven't had time to investigate further), but damn, that radiator (and it's cap) held some serious pressure and kept the engine just cool enough to avoid damage without a fan on a 102 degree day!

I'm impressed.
 
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IICrew

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That is great news. I put the Champion one in the Mach but have not driven it more then a couple miles so far. I will need one for Chrsitine but wanted to get miles on the Mach to be sure it can do the job. Happy to hear it performed so well in a bad :poo:uation!
 
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MustangIIMatt

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IICrew

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I looked into them when I started thinking about adding ac. This is just my opinion and your results may vary!!

They don't put out the volume of cooling we would need. That condenser is tiny compared to a factory one. I believe they can work in an insulated environment but the amount of glass, lack of insulation and need for fresh air mixing makes it very hard to cool a car interior. It would probably work when the sun was down but I doubt it would be able to keep up during the day. Especially in a southern state.

When using 12v the compressor alone needs 50 amps. The package needs 80 amps. A 100 amp alternator will not keep up. You need at least 140 amp. That leaves you with little to no reserve capacity. I do not like running electric components at their max output. To get efficiency you would need to use 24 volts. That could be obtained with a 2nd battery but where does it get installed? Wiring it all up would be a pain. How big of an alternator would you need. Where is that evap/blower box going? In the trunk, how do you vent it into the interior? How to extract from interior? Parcel shelf? That thing is tiny on coupes.

I think these are aimed at truckers for use when parked overnight. The cab is already cooled by engine ac and this is used mostly at night. Trucks with sleepers have a lot more insulation then our cars.

I have a parts car with ac so the heater box was already here. That is going to be the hardest parts to find for you. This summer I have purchased a new condenser ($300), Blower motor ($60), Evaporator ($300) and heater core ($100). That is all the II specific parts needed. They are available.

I still need compressor brackets, probably going to be 89 crown vic front dress($?) and a compressor ($300). Then hoses and misc vacuum fittings, receiver, and heater control valve($200). I will do install myself then have lines made and system charged at the local garage. So $1500 to $2000 all in.

I am spending double what that kit costs but I know this system will do the job. Every time I try to take a shortcut it bites me in the ass.
 
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MustangIIMatt

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I looked into them when I started thinking about adding ac. This is just my opinion and your results may vary!!

They don't put out the volume of cooling we would need. That condenser is tiny compared to a factory one. I believe they can work in an insulated environment but the amount of glass, lack of insulation and need for fresh air mixing makes it very hard to cool a car interior. It would probably work when the sun was down but I doubt it would be able to keep up during the day. Especially in a southern state.

When using 12v the compressor alone needs 50 amps. The package needs 80 amps. A 100 amp alternator will not keep up. You need at least 140 amp. That leaves you with little to no reserve capacity. I do not like running electric components at their max output. To get efficiency you would need to use 24 volts. That could be obtained with a 2nd battery but where does it get installed? Wiring it all up would be a pain. How big of an alternator would you need. Where is that evap/blower box going? In the trunk, how do you vent it into the interior? How to extract from interior? Parcel shelf? That thing is tiny on coupes.

I think these are aimed at truckers for use when parked overnight. The cab is already cooled by engine ac and this is used mostly at night. Trucks with sleepers have a lot more insulation then our cars.

I have a parts car with ac so the heater box was already here. That is going to be the hardest parts to find for you. This summer I have purchased a new condenser ($300), Blower motor ($60), Evaporator ($300) and heater core ($100). That is all the II specific parts needed. They are available.

I still need compressor brackets, probably going to be 89 crown vic front dress($?) and a compressor ($300). Then hoses and misc vacuum fittings, receiver, and heater control valve($200). I will do install myself then have lines made and system charged at the local garage. So $1500 to $2000 all in.

I am spending double what that kit costs but I know this system will do the job. Every time I try to take a shortcut it bites me in the ass.
I need to sit down and do the hard math.

The smaller condenser could either be a major problem, or a non-issue given that the compressor runs at a constant speed instead of varying speeds like an engine-driven unit. Electrically, you're right, 100 amps will likely not be enough, but there are ways around that (capacitors, larger alternator, dual battery setup). Right now this is still in the "thought exercise" phase where I'm exploring the possibilities, and sometimes I spew the incomplete thoughts into this thread to see what feedback I get, such as your answers here.

I was looking at the blower box and thinking to myself "where would you put THAT?" :O_o:
Well.... anywhere I want, really. That's part of what appeals to me about this system. The compressor could be hidden in the trunk, as could everything else but the condenser. There's a rear seat delete and a custom dash in the planning stages for this ol' hoopty, so either could be built around such a unit.

@IICrew is right about just about everything in his reply... but I'm not quite ready to let this idea go yet, even if I have a nominally better idea that is older already percolating.




Then, of course, custom hoses and a large enough condenser.

The only absolute certainties at this point are that I will be ditching the GM alternator that's been on the car since I bought it, and that I would really love to do a smooth firewall when I re-wire the car... but I also want air conditioning.
 
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LILCBRA

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I've been thinking about AC in my car too. I removed the system when I redid the car ~20 years ago - but I lived in Iowa at the time and didn't think about needing it as much as I'd appreciate it here. I've been thinking about what I did with the heater box since that's probably the hardest thing to come up with and wondering if it's stuffed in the back of my 55. :shrug:

As far as your alternator options go, what about the 3G? I don't know if there is a 200 amp option with opposing mounting ears, but I'd think that that might be a good option for you if you go that route.

Of course, there's this option as far as a blower box goes....

Amazon product
View: https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Air-Conditioner-0890C-Control/dp/B01006B2MS/?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_w=wdZZA&content-id=amzn1.sym.bbb6bbd8-d236-47cb-b42f-734cb0cacc1f&pf_rd_p=bbb6bbd8-d236-47cb-b42f-734cb0cacc1f&pf_rd_r=83TQ74A2587ZPHH6DKR0&pd_rd_wg=q9ejL&pd_rd_r=8fde1578-6c84-472a-a82c-e343e8aecbff&ref_=pd_gw_ci_mcx_mi
 

IICrew

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If your redoing the firewall anyway get a universal in dash system. Get one with defrost. The restomod one is 16"w X 6"tall and 10" deep. I am sure one of the less expensive ones will fit as well but I wasn't finding dimensions doing a quick search. That way your not reinventing the wheel. It could look factory and controls integrated easily. With what I spent refurbishing the II heater box you could almost have a new one.

Then decide on compressor. I really like the idea of an electric compressor. Can be hidden. Engine bay stays cleaner. No pulley alignment issues. Can set to turn on before entering vehicle. but...

I read we need about 15,000 btu cooling minimum. Otherwise it's gonna take 30 minutes to cool down and most trips are less then that in a car. Just doubt a 12v unit can do the job. In an rv or truck they usually run 24v and for longer trips. They tend to work better for that application.

You could get a couple smaller lipo 12v batteries to give you 24v. Or 4 to get 48v. I just think once its all said and done you will have more into an electric system with mediocre results vs belt driven with proven results.

Sanden 508 is 28,000 btu at 3,000 rpm. Their 510 is 33,000 btu. The 12/24 look like 12,000 btu max. 48v is 15,000. The one you linked on amazon works out to 5,000 btu.
 
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LILCBRA

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I've been thinking about what I did with the heater box since that's probably the hardest thing to come up with and wondering if it's stuffed in the back of my 55. :shrug:

I remembered to take a look, unfortunately I don't still have it. :shrug: So, if I do go down this road I'll be in the same boat.
 

MustangIIMatt

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Sold the 4.6 Mark VIII engine to a guy that wanted the short block for his Marauder, but was willing to buy the whole bundle of parts.

I spent four days in the hospital last week because a pimple got infected with MRSA. That was fun.

ElSuperPinto sits quietly, waiting it's turn behind the girlfriend's Ranger and Avalon, which are both going to be sold as soon as I'm done with them (I helped her score a 1-owner 13,000 mile 2015 Buick Verano for a fantastic price through work).


Work has dropped to an adequate workflow from the deluge it was, so there may be time to screw around with it soon.
 
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7991LXnSHO

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Sold the 4.6 Mark VIII engine to a guy that wanted the short block for his Marauder, but was willing to buy the whole bundle of parts.

I spent four days in the hospital last week because a pimple got infected with MRSA. That was fun.

ElSuperPinto sits quietly, waiting it's turn behind the girlfriend's Ranger and Avalon, which are both going to be sold as soon as I'm done with them (I helped her score a 1-owner 13,000 mile 2015 Buick Verano for a fantastic price through work).


Work has dropped to an adequate workflow from the deluge it was, so there may be time to screw around with it soon.
MRSA can be bad news. I hope it’s gone.
 

MustangIIMatt

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MRSA can be bad news. I hope it’s gone.
The doctor I had pulled no punches, three IV antibiotics for four days and two oral antibiotics for four more. They also cut out the pimple itself, which was on my stomach, to get to the root of it. They were doing blood tests three times a day to monitor kidney function and to make sure they got all of the infection. So far so good.
 
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extra_stout

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Get well soon!
Sadly a lot of :poo: it going on, so I do not have to much time for my Mustang and being around here. But I just read your thread and progress. And I just need to drop: I said it, get rid of the EFI and install a carburetor ;)
It is good news, that you can now enjoy the car again.
 
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MustangIIMatt

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Get well soon!
Sadly a lot of :poo: it going on, so I do not have to much time for my Mustang and being around here. But I just read your thread and progress. And I just need to drop: I said it, get rid of the EFI and install a carburetor ;)
It is good news, that you can now enjoy the car again.
I figured out what the root of the problem with the EFI was when the cooling fan melted down that fuse. @IICrew will have already figured it out from that clue.
 

MustangIIMatt

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I figured out what the root of the problem with the EFI was when the cooling fan melted down that fuse. @IICrew will have already figured it out from that clue.
No takers?

Fan - 30 amps peak
MSD ignition - 10 amps peak
MSD Atomic EFI - 30 amps peak
Misc. - 5 amps? 10?

On a hot day, when everything was working the hardest, I was drawing around 45-50 amps with the engine running BEFORE the cooling fan would kick in. That fan takes a lot of amps to get started (like 30), and every time the cooling fan would engage, the engine would stumble momentarily due to the fact that the demand was higher than the alternator (63 amps peak output) could provide. Those kinds of power dips and spikes could be absorbed by the ignition box, it has capacitors. The computer for the Atomic EFI, however, was taking a kick in the teeth. If I had thought everything through, when I went EFI, I would have updated the alternator.

All of that said, MSD's literature for the Atomic neglects to mention just how power hungry it really is.
 
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IICrew

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I saw you mention me last night and didn't want to comment till I figured it out. Alternator is only common denominator here but I did not realize how hungry that efi system is. Since it's designed for hot rods and they came with low output systems you would think they would include a big ass warning in the kit. Like it's own yellow page with a huge red triangle kinda warning. With bold red writing too.
 
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LILCBRA

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So which route were you planning with your alternator again? The one wire?

Seems like I know a guy who swapped in a 3G. Maybe he was even nice enough to post about it..... :jester:

Ah yes, here it is..... as @General karthief says, you need MO POWAH!! :cool:

1661254099749.png
 
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MustangIIMatt

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