Starter having hard time to start causing my starter to stay on

Creomod

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Sep 14, 2018
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Ok it keeps happening to me,I just replaced starter solonid and a new old school starter I’m having some issue I can’t figure out. I also just replaced distributor with a dynomat. Haven’t had any issues in the past good battery,good sve 130 amp alternator I also swapped fuel relay and this time car was struggling to turn on was cranking slower then it started but I heard a loud sound like fly wheel starter spinning hitting I turned car off but the starter kept cranking to where wires were smoking I couldn’t get to tools quicker enough so I just yanked the wires at the battery.They got hot. I’m sure the car could’ve caught on fire I haven’t removed the starter I’m sure it’s toast and the solonid but what do you think could be causing something like this? I have a msd box I took it off and it seems to struggle after I get from point a to point b.I also changed the ignition wires about year ago(at the steering wheel)like I said it fires right up but point a to b something happens as if something gets hot and acts up. Problem has been going on for a while about the sputtering and car no start with other distributors so I bought a new one this time. The other distributor was getting me to work but I couldn’t step on it because sometimes it would sputter and it feels bad when it happens.I have checked a lot of things maybe someone up here has experienced something like this or what could cause something like this?
 
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TIGGER

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3 Years ago or so, I was rewiring the Amps in my Saleen. I ran a new power wire and when I was connecting the new amp wire back to the starter solenoid I cracked the post. I believe this was the original one to the car. I went to the Autozone and picked another one up so I could move the car. After a week or so, it started sticking randomly so I bought a motorcraft one from Rockauto. Once it came I took the other one back. The new motorcraft stuck too. I got another replacement morotcraft from Rock auto and that one stuck too. I never had issues with the original solenoid sticking so I went to pick and pull and got 3 original ones from the late 80's early 90's and put one of those on and have not had issues since. No more sticking. I have two more for back up. The new solenoids these days appear to be garbage.
 

7991LXnSHO

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Charge it and go to the FLAPS so they can check the health of the battery and charging system with the right tools FOR FREE. :banana:

For a proper load test, they will crank the amps up to 50% of the CCA rating for a certain period of time, see how low the voltage goes, then see how much the battery recovers it’s voltage. Advance auto has you turn stuff on, then crank the starter to achieve the same type of test with a smaller, hand held unit.
They will also check the system charging (amps and volts), and check it for parasitic drain.
For Free!

Btw, 12 v is not a the reading a healthy, properly charged “12v” battery reads.
 

Creomod

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Charge it and go to the FLAPS so they can check the health of the battery and charging system with the right tools FOR FREE. :banana:

For a proper load test, they will crank the amps up to 50% of the CCA rating for a certain period of time, see how low the voltage goes, then see how much the battery recovers it’s voltage. Advance auto has you turn stuff on, then crank the starter to achieve the same type of test with a smaller, hand held unit.
They will also check the system charging (amps and volts), and check it for parasitic drain.
For Free!

Btw, 12 v is not a the reading a healthy, properly charged “12v” battery reads.
That’s the next step. I always assumed the parts store would always tell you the battery bad so they could make a sale. Advanced will test my charging system on the car?As for a parisitic draw when a draw happens don’t you need to recharge the battery or would they stay fully charged? I’m asking because the car drives from here to work maybe a quick stop but if I get across town turn off car and decide to turn it on it does that thing where it’s having a hard time starting kills starter,starter solonid ect...... but if I just stop get gas then go across town to work turn car off then at lunch time car turns on turns on again from lunch to work(close) it turns on in other words it seems like it turns on fine but once something gets hot warm and if I turn car off and try to start it after a good drive it does crank no start I don’t get that problem when I use the car for work but I bet if I get to work and try and turn car on as soon as I shut it off for my shift it won’t start.Thats basically what it’s doing sorry about the rant
 
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7991LXnSHO

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That’s the next step. I always assumed the parts store would always tell you the battery bad so they could make a sale. Advanced will test my charging system on the car? Just asking because I really never go there.
They test parts so they can sell the right ones the first time, and have accurate warranty returns. The tester does not differentiate between the brand and warranty status of the battery, or alternator. A franchise (Napa) or independent store might still have the bench tester for batteries with a big knob on a carbon load. Advance used to have roll out cart testers to test the electrical system on the vehicle, and the last couple of stores I visited were hand held ones with printers for their warranty form.
 

Creomod

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Wait I’m reading on parasitic draw the only thing I know is drawing amp when cars off is my voltage gauge. I have it connected to both neg and pos battery terminals. Now the wire that goes to the light in the gauge I think I have it hooked up to radio wire(not sure what wire) but the light isn’t on when the cars off
 

7991LXnSHO

wanna catch the space herp
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A parasitic draw will drain the battery while the key is shut off. So like if a hood, interior or trunk light stays on, you will find a dead battery in a a day or overnight. If your car has a clock or clock in the radio, there will be a little drain (milli amps) to keep that going. Your problem sounds like a bad battery or a bigger draw than that.
 

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
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I'm thinking cables/connections need to be checked/replaced, hard for me to get a read on the problem with the terminology used, from what I gather you are having 'heat related slow crank' issues
 
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7991LXnSHO

wanna catch the space herp
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I'm thinking cables/connections need to be checked/replaced, hard for me to get a read on the problem with the terminology used, from what I gather you are having 'heat related slow crank' issues
Likely that's also part of the problem, especially after almost melting the wires. Voltage drops and clean connections are what I was going to suggest after eliminating major component issues.
 
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Creomod

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Well see,now I have to wait till the morning. I will start with the wires of course and take battery to get tested in the morning. I just hope my flywheel didn’t get damaged. First time I heard that clattering sound.
 

7991LXnSHO

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Well see,now I have to wait till the morning. I will start with the wires of course and take battery to get tested in the morning. I just hope my flywheel didn’t get damaged. First time I heard that clattering sound.
Take the whole car first. Then after the battery and slternstor check out, then do wire checking.
 

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
Mod Dude
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Heres where I'll disagree with you @7991LXnSHO
If the wiring is compromised, overheaded, corroded, loose, green/gray wire color, and the car already has a problem starting, I would replace/upgrade the cables and any wire that is damaged, if he has a battery charger like a trickle charger, leave the battery on the charger several hours, after inspecting/replacing cables/wires then he can have the battery checked.
DISCLAIMER: this is my opinion and not based on any actual mechanical experience.
 

Creomod

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Heres where I'll disagree with you @7991LXnSHO
If the wiring is compromised, overheaded, corroded, loose, green/gray wire color, and the car already has a problem starting, I would replace/upgrade the cables and any wire that is damaged, if he has a battery charger like a trickle charger, leave the battery on the charger several hours, after inspecting/replacing cables/wires then he can have the battery checked.
DISCLAIMER: this is my opinion and not based on any actual mechanical experience.
Actually the wires were not corroded I’ve only had them few months. As a matter a fact last week I cleaned all connections on the solonid and added dielectric Greese. I took some pics of the starter. Damm thing looks good. The teeth on there look good. The wires from the battery got hot! The battery terminals the black and red one bent and cracked and cracked a bit. I’m afraid that it “passes” because it did end up starting but like I said sounded clacking something tapping fast in the flywheel area. Sounded crazy. As for the battery do I stIll need to have the battery charged? Reason I ask is because I checked the Voltage with voltmeter and it shows 12v on Anolog one.If it shows good on there doesn’t that mean it’s charged?Good idea to still have it load tested?
 

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7991LXnSHO

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@General karthief
Without the car here it is hard to definitively agree or disagree about how the wires are. From the first post, of course the cables got hot. Does that mean stuff got hot enough to burn the insulation? If so, they need replaced, But new cables might immediately cook from the same sticking solenoid/starter relay.
If the insulation got soft but not burned on the cables, like when my last battery was dying at within a month of ten years and the solenoid started to stick, the cables could be fine, but the starter Bendix might be over spun and rattled.

I’m not picturing this is the same situation as the alternator issue car in another post. If it is, that’s different. Any of the smaller wires that are nasty need repaired.
So, an inspection is a good idea.

Heres where I'll disagree with you @7991LXnSHO
If the wiring is compromised, overheaded, corroded, loose, green/gray wire color, and the car already has a problem starting, I would replace/upgrade the cables and any wire that is damaged, if he has a battery charger like a trickle charger, leave the battery on the charger several hours, after inspecting/replacing cables/wires then he can have the battery checked.
DISCLAIMER: this is my opinion and not based on any actual mechanical experience.
 

Creomod

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@General karthief
Without the car here it is hard to definitively agree or disagree about how the wires are. From the first post, of course the cables got hot. Does that mean stuff got hot enough to burn the insulation? If so, they need replaced, But new cables might immediately cook from the same sticking solenoid/starter relay.
If the insulation got soft but not burned on the cables, like when my last battery was dying at within a month of ten years and the solenoid started to stick, the cables could be fine, but the starter Bendix might be over spun and rattled.

I’m not picturing this is the same situation as the alternator issue car in another post. If it is, that’s different. Any of the smaller wires that are nasty need repaired.
So, an inspection is a good idea.
Yea wire insulation got soft. When it was happening it was smoking slowly from those terminals. I didn’t know what to do so I panicked and just yanked wires with my hands. Burned my fingers a bit
 

7991LXnSHO

wanna catch the space herp
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Actually the wires were not corroded I’ve only had them few months. As a matter a fact last week I cleaned all connections on the solonid and added dielectric Greese. I took some pics of the starter. Damm thing looks good. The teeth on there look good. The wires from the battery got hot! The battery terminals the black and red one bent and cracked and cracked a bit. I’m afraid that it “passes” because it did end up starting but like I said sounded clacking something tapping fast in the flywheel area. Sounded crazy. As for the battery do I stIll need to have the battery charged? Reason I ask is because I checked the Voltage with voltmeter and it shows 12v on Anolog one.
Yes, your battery absolutely needs checked. If the meter is accurate, 12v is not fully charged for a good battery. 12.7 v or above (some say 12.6v or above) is the minimum spec for a good, charged battery. 12.1 v can be only 50% charged. Until this battery is verified good or bad, those cables that need repaired could easily be toasted again.

Since stuff is apart, get the starter bench tested and the battery bench load tested. The bench testers for starters check how many amps they pull, besides making sure it does not sound like junk from the abuse it has survived so far. The bushings, kick out function, and Bendix will be easier to check off the car and on the bench. Good teeth is a good start.
Now you have a better description and pics, @General karthief was right in assuming the worst.

Out of curiosity, can you post pics of the meter? Analog is not bad for testing anything but the computer related items, and knowing what you have will help with further diagnostics.

@Creomod Please let us know what the bench tests and inspections show.
 
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General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
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He is correct about the battery, when you hit the key, because the battery is not fully charged, it heats up the wires and causes the starter to overheat and other stuff to happen.
I wouldn't mess with that starter, get a new one,
Those wires look to be ok but I'm not there so use good judgment on wire condition.
A battery can read 12+ volts static (no load), but slam a load on it (starter is a good example, also head lights) and it drops voltage below 12volts which is normal, drops too low and things start to heat up. Release the load (stop cranking or turn off the lights) and the battery will jump back up to 12+ volts, I've seen batteries drop all the way to 0 volt with a load and jump back to 12 volts when static.
This explains a slow crank problem more so when hot, if it was cranking over good when hot but not starting and you've tried stuff I would suggest unhooking that MSD box, wire the ignition back to stock, this eliminates the box from the equation.
When you were trying to restart the car you may have been cranking the engine for an extended period of time causing the overheated wires and the starter problem. Get this cranking issue resolved first, then work on the no start when hot issue.
Let us know what you're gonna do and what you need help with.
Hope this long post helps explain some things besides the fact that I've had too much coffee.