Stroker size question

J

jr99svt

New Member
Aug 31, 2006
23
0
2
#1
Hi All,
Im new to the pushrod side of the mustang world. I Have a 99 cobra vert, and i just bought a 94 gt with no engine. No im not crazy, i wanted to buy a car that i could build from scratch. Here is what i have ordered so far. A dss level 20 351W .030 over block, Billet Aluminum Main Support Girdle, Pro Windage Tray, AFM N-81 Cam, ARP Hardware, Fel Pro Gasket Set, O-ring Head gaskets, Ford Racing Hy-Vo Double roller timing set, And AFR 205 heads. What size Stroker Should i go With? i am looking At A 393, or a 408, With all forged rotating Assy. looking to put 11.5 or 12.0:1 Commpression Ratio N/A. Car will be a Street car that is not a daily driver, But will see some strip time. i Also want reliability/dependability in case i would want to drive it long distances. Also What kit would you go with(name brand?), And why?Thanks for any help. :cheers: :cheers:
 

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#5
less rod angle:rlaugh:












(sorry man I am with you, just had to do it:rlaugh: )


If one is looking to go stroker 351 based I would be looking at a 408+ also, not knocking a 393 at all, just if money was no object for a big build. I also would not want to build a stroker without getting a much better block...even though the 351's are stronger than the 302's. So with that outlay of cash for a stroker...why not go as big as you can?
 
#6
There is a less steeper rod angle with the 393 and the 408. There is not as much piston material on the 408 piston as a 393.

I know a guy with a 438 cubic inch engine. 200 shot on top of it.
 
#7
to re-hash, stir the pot, start trouble (rolling the r). I have seen the math on the rod angle on the strokers as have MANY of the others on this site. It is not that much, there are far greater issues with setting up a combo than the rod angle. If the diff. in press. was going to be too much or an issue...the motor would be made of soft candy/play-dough/or cyl. made out of used Bud cans.

this site is not the last word and if you want to see some REAL tech on the subject wonder off to hardcore and search the topic and really learn something from people who build/race/machine/custom build far more complex setups than 99.999 of this site will ever see as their norm.
 
#8
jr99svt said:
There's no replacment for displacement is what your saying? why a 408 over a 393?
Click to expand...

Yes sir.

The bigger engine will make more power and require less rpm to make the power. RPM is the enemy of a good running engine.
 
#9
blksn955.o said:
to re-hash, stir the pot, start trouble (rolling the r). I have seen the math on the rod angle on the strokers as have MANY of the others on this site. It is not that much, there are far greater issues with setting up a combo than the rod angle. If the diff. in press. was going to be too much or an issue...the motor would be made of soft candy/play-dough/or cyl. made out of used Bud cans.

this site is not the last word and if you want to see some REAL tech on the subject wonder off to hardcore and search the topic and really learn something from people who build/race/machine/custom build far more complex setups than 99.999 of this site will ever see as their norm.
Click to expand...

Yes, most of the people over there know what they are actually talking about and are not reitterating what someone else has told them.

Now, the pro for going over there is that they can give you the potential to go fast. There point over there is to get you from point A to point B as quick as possible.

The con for over there, is that that daily driver characteristics and longevity are not much of a concern for them.

So in short, that is why you get responses that 'bigger is better'...

Oh, and if more cubes is better, let's all build the biggest possible engine for our cars. It will not effect anything on the car or for the driver.

Weight, driveability, longevity, etc...will not be effected:D
 
#11
Physics are cool, but I would look at the engineering of the motor as far as stress loads/time/struct. of design.

An engine will not last forever and Soooo many variables lead to its failure.

On a stock block with the thin cyl. walls I kinda agree that any extra load anywere will not be good. However, with the strength of aftermarket blocks and the much much thicker walls and all around blocks that are enineerd' to withstand alot more everywere else as well, there is absolutely no issue with engine life from that extra force.

Again I would not build a stroker without a aftermarket block 327/331/347/347+ or 393/408/427/4xx. Not that the rod angle is too much on the cyl. walls...but that the main webbing and mains themselvs are a far greater issue and will fail first before any issues from the rod angle have a chance to kill it.

I dont think I have ever heard of a 347 wearing out faster from rod angle over a 331 from rod angle, I dont think one has even posted about it in a engine failure. I am no pro but even on that more Pro website no one jumped in and said rod angle killed the motor.
 
#12
blksn955.o said:
Physics are cool, but I would look at the engineering of the motor as far as stress loads/time/struct. of design.

An engine will not last forever and Soooo many variables lead to its failure.
Click to expand...

A mechanical engineering forum was on the same physics forum I'm referring to. Physics has a lot to do with rotating weight and forces. I'm pretty sure that plays a major part of it along with mech. engineering.

blksn955.o said:
On a stock block with the thin cyl. walls I kinda agree that any extra load anywere will not be good. However, with the strength of aftermarket blocks and the much much thicker walls and all around blocks that are enineerd' to withstand alot more everywere else as well, there is absolutely no issue with engine life from that extra force.
Click to expand...

I agree, if I didn't care about my car's longevity or plans for the future , I would put a stroker in a stock block.

On the "engine life", I was pointing more towards wear on the rings and oil control. It isn't as bad as it used to be...but the 'physics' of the ratio automatically apply more pressure to the rings over a stock rod ratio. It is the nature of the beast.

blksn955.o said:
Again I would not build a stroker without a aftermarket block 327/331/347/347+ or 393/408/427/4xx. Not that the rod angle is too much on the cyl. walls...but that the main webbing and mains themselvs are a far greater issue and will fail first before any issues from the rod angle have a chance to kill it.
Click to expand...

Main webbing and all is very key.

But, look at where most stock blocks crack...down the lifter valley. There is a splitting force applied towards the outside to split the middle. The steeper that force is applied, the more likely to put the block into cracking condtions.

blksn955.o said:
I dont think I have ever heard of a 347 wearing out faster from rod angle over a 331 from rod angle, I dont think one has even posted about it in a engine failure. I am no pro but even on that more Pro website no one jumped in and said rod angle killed the motor.
Click to expand...

That is because no one has tested it under a controlled situation. The math, physics, engineering all point to the facts. It is hard to ignore. Yet, somepeople do...

They aren't worried about "rod angle killing the engine".

They (pros) usually put it in an aftermarket block.

They (pros) usually use it to race or have fun in it. Not to drive around everyday.

They (pros) don't worry about longevity.

Other than that, I agree with most of what you are saying.

It isn't just as simple as "why not get the extra 16 cubes for free"...

Much more to it than that...

They wouldn't make them otherwise. To risky in the market.
 
#13
so what are you saying? the block i get will wear out fast? doesn't the main girdle promte a stronger main cap part of the block to prevent bearing cap walk? im not looking at putting 1000hp down. i was hoping for somewhere around 600 N/A. is that to much on a level 20 block?
 
#14
Yes, I think it is to much power for that stock block. Level 20 is very similar to a stock block. DSS does make good engines though.

A main girdle will do little to help prevent the block from cracking in the lifter valley.

The block won't wear out faster. The rings will occur a very minimum amount of wear compared to a 302 or 331...but if you are going to "have fun" with the car...I don't think you worried about 100k engine burning oil instead of one burning 115k-120k engine.

I would get an aftermarket block, and do a 4.125" bore with a 3.4" stroke...getting 363 cubes and have a much stronger block. Your wallet will be a lot weaker though:(
 
#17
Do you need link bar lifters for it or is it roller?

Reason I asked is the older blocks (69-74) were MUCH better and stronger than the late model blocks. My builder said late model 351 blocks are no stronger than late model 302 blocks.
 
#19
Grn92lx - You missed the point. It was answering basic stroker questions. Same principle applies.

Read about what blksn9550 was saying...then you might get it. He was talking about what I was talking about. Then a question was asked by jr99svt about what I said. So I answered them.

Pretty simple really...

Hardcore isn't worried about daily drivers...so if that is what he wants...go for it. Like I said MOST know what they are talking about over there...
 
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