Suspension Help

Discussion in 'Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech' started by 5.02GO, Nov 12, 2005.

  1. I still think the Bullitt set up is a great choice. The Bullitt was one of the best handling Mustangs ever produced, plus it had excellent ride quality as it was something you would have to be able to live with. The Fox car is slightly lighter than an 01 Bullitt so it wont sit quite as low and the ride is ever so slightly harsher. I havent even changed my control arms out back yet and the car is an absolute blast to drive. One of the great features of the Bullitt kit too is that the Tokico Struts and Shocks are valved to match the springs so there is no guesswork about what to match with what.
  2. ive got something to throw in here, if going with eibach, would someone want the sportline or the prokit, pros cons for each one?
  3. The eibach pro kit i believe is a softer spring than the sportline.

    Also, would i have to get caster camber plates if i use the eibach and bilstein setup?

    I have read that SOME people have experienced the front being higher than the back with the bullit suspension.

    From what i have read, the bilsteins offer a very comfortable ride compared to stock.

    This suspension stuff is like trying to figure out wich stroker motor to get.:D
  4. Do not get the sportlines, there is a reason they are Listed in some place as "extreme lowering", in 6 months the car will litterally sit in the dirt. And with the Sportlines you will most likely need the CC plates.

    CC plates are hit or miss. Some cars need them, some don't.

    As i said earlier, the eibach pro kit will make you happy, i've have not found one person yet that disliked it.
    Should lower the car about an inch more than the bullits.
    And the sportline would likely lower the car 1/2-inch more than the pro kit.
  5. 2000XP, you seem have ALOT of experience and knowledge with suspension.

    Is there any reason why you dont use bilstein?

    On the eibach pro kit, i dont need any other parts do i? I know that i need those spring isolators.
  6. Go ahead use the bilsteins, people tend to love them. I have them on my explorer and have had them on the mustang, i prefer adjustable shocks, but it adds a bit to the cost.

    You need Energy suspension End links.

    If you are doint this at home, you are going to need some very large wrenches/sockets/1/2 inch rachets, extensions, you try to do this with a small rachet set, i can gurantee you break them.
    You may need to mix and match so make sure you have a socket and wrench to fit on every bolt.

  7. Why will i need those energy suspension links?
  8. Because you got a 50/50 chance of breaking the stock ones when you remove them, and on top of that, about a 75% chance that the stock ones are shot.

    You don't want to break one, and have to goto the store for a $20 part.
  9. I ended up with about an 1/8" rake with my Bullitt Suspension, meaning the front sits about 1/8" lower than the rear. Bilstein Shocks are nice too, they came from the Factory on my Pick up truck.
  10. C/C Plates are a must on any Mustang that is going to be driven spirited as the Factory Plates will not hold your tire in line through the range of motion from top to bottom. Go to the Corral and check out a Guy with the Screen Name MFE, he is an Auto "X"er and is loaded with suspension knowledge.
  11. hm.... not too familiar with suspension (very in depth anyway)... what exactly are end links
  12. They are what connect the anti-sway bar to the control arms. They are a long bolt (crudely stated) with bushings on each mating surface. A nut secures the bolt to the antisway bar and LCA.

    Good luck.
  13. Yeah shaker. MFE is VERY knowledgable about suspension. I have read some of his replies on corral.

    Well hell, everyone that replied to this thread is very knowledgable about suspension. And were very nice to share their knowledge and experience with me.

    I would like to thank everyone that replied to this thread and answering my questions about this stuff. I especially want to thank :hail2: Stangbear:hail2: , :hail2: Shaker:hail2: , :hail2: 2000xp :hail2: and :hail2: Hissin':hail2: . I am glad that yall took the time to answer AND explain stuff.............Thanks

    I really havent made up my mind yet. I have read nothing BAD about the bullit setup OR the bilstein/eibach. They BOTH seem be a great package. I did notice that summit had their bullit package for over $500 last week. I checked it last night and it was $418.

    Hmmm.....Bullit or Bilstein/eibach? This is almost like.........331 or 347?

    On the caster/camber plates. So you are saying the I need to get some reguardless of the package that i get? Endlinks - Are the stock ones rubber or plastic?

    Thanks guys.......:nice:
  14. Decide how low you want the car, that should make your decision for you.

    Stock endlinks i believe are rubber, been so long i had a set i don't know.

    You may or may not need the CC plates. I assumed you are on a budget, it would not be the end of the world that you didn't get them. Yes they help, but you aren't RR, and if your car aligns properly, it's not that big of a deal to not have them.
  15. OK, none of us want to be the one who's ideas you follow and have it not turn out how you'd hoped. Here's what you need to do:

    1. Look up a local Mustang club.
    2. Go make some new friends.
    3. Ride in some cars.
    4. Make an educated "seat of the pants" decision.

    Now, you have diligently done a lot of homework online here, and it's possible that that option isn't expedient for you. Honestly, the longer this thread gets, the more I'm re-thinking all the advice you've taken in. Here's what I think:

    No, your bushings are soggy and your dampers are shot. Your springs are probably fine, but we don't know for sure.

    Are you saying that you think it turns on rails now? Or that it did when you bought it? It didn't and it doesn't, but if you thought it did that's important for us to know and I should have asked a long time ago. Adjectives are all relative after all, and re-reading your first post I think you feel it corners well now... or it did when it was fresh. So, I changed my mind about what I think you need.

    1. Follow 2000xpt's advice for Energy Suspension spring isolators and end links
    2. Get some OEM stock replacement shocks, struts, and quad shocks
    3. Panhard bar/watts link
    4. (only if 1-3 aren't sporty enough) stiffer anti sway bars

    ...and I'll tell you why:

    it is a little known fact even among the most hard-core Stangthusiast that the springs and shocks Ford used in the Fox isn't the reason it gets its ass handed to it on the road course. They were carefully chosen for the size, weight, etc of the Fox, under most driving conditions. Most doesn't include AutoXing... but you don't do that do you? You want it to handle well and ride comfy. New in '93 it did- although not "rails". "Rail" handling brings to mind visions of "floor jack" ride quality. The only way to get insane handling without compromising ride quality excessively is coilovers, which are out of the question for this budget, and it would likely still ride rougher than you want. Springs and shocks don't address the real reason your car doesn't handle like a BMW.

    The disaster with the Fox is in it's suspension DESIGN, not it's components (though they are cheesy at best):
    the front ackerman is a ridiculous compromise (read: disastckerman geometry). The best way to clean up the mess is coilovers and a K-member. Not so important for your purposes. Ford committed the biggest atrocity while setting up the rear: the Fox four link. That's where I think you should focus.

    Most of the handling gremlins associated with the stock Fox suspension stem from the stupid four link rear. Over 2" of sideways movement has been recorded under cornering, and the upper control arms bind every chance they get which upsets the balance of the car and compromises the contact patch. This is why the car doesn't handle smoothly or predictably in turns, corner braking, etc, and gets worse the closer to the limit you push it. The upper control arms aren't up to the multitasking Ford allotted for them: control axle windup AND positively locate the rear end.

    If you install a panhard bar or watts link, this will positively locate the rear, and rear steer will no longer be a problem. It will feel more "rail like" without the negative ride quality effects of stiffer springs and/or sport valve'd shocks. You may still notice more body roll in turns than you'd like, in which case, you may want to step up to the next diameter of anti sway bars. That's what they are for after all- controlling body roll. They will do it without adverse effects to ride quality, unlike stiffer springs- which is how you would tune it out on a road course car where ride quality isn't important.

    [sidenote]If the anti sway bar mounts don't look good, they should be upgraded to Energy Suspension along with the end links. Same for the rear control arm bushings, although it may be worthwhile to just replace the control arms with the FRPP uppers, which are cheap and don't use poly bushings which tend to bind, and lowers of your choice. This can be done at a later date, if it seems necessary.

    I've spent hours talking to racers, and techs at Griggs, MM, Kenny Brown and Steeda, and can say with impunity that anyone who knows what they're talking about (if they are being honest, not trying to sell parts) will tell you that a stock 5.0 with a panhard and good tires (like your BFG's) will out handle one with any spring/shock combo made. (and feel good on your aging back) Granted, a spring/shock car with other mods is another story- one that I don't think is relevent to your needs or goals. If you do this, it will ride OEM smooth, handle significantly better than stock, and you will still be able to jack it up with ease. Now I've given you another $.02

    *jess runs for cover and waits for stangnet lynch mob to arrive*
  16. HooYaa................


    I will definetely take that info into consideration. This is really wierd cause i was just thinking of some local mustang people. I dont know of ANYONE who is even talked about suspension where i live. All the upgrades and money go into the motor. Or maybe some wheels and tires. No money into suspension.

    So basically spring isolators, oem shocks/struts and end links. Possibly a panhard maybe even a stiffer sway bar. Panhard which brand to get?

    I looked at my endlink bushings and they are blue and they feel hard. Is stock endlink bushings supposed to be rubber or plastic?

    Any ideas about getting ford shocks/struts without going to a ford dealer?

    Oh stangbear, that post wasnt two cents worth. It was several dollars worth!

    Thanks man!
  17. If you use anything that lowers the car, i would not use OEM shocks.

    Panhard Bar is a definite plus, but IMO it's part of the second or third phase of suspension if you are on a budget.
    PHB keeps the rear centered under the car. A mustang has a 4 link, (4 control arms, 2 uppers 2 lowers) and under hard cornering the rear can shift to the side.

  18. I have noticed the side shifting. Is pandhard bar a simple bolt on?
  19. I wouldn't say simple, but it can be bolted in.
    But it's about $350.
  20. And the stock end links should be of a decent durometer, but not as stiff as poly. If yours feel kinda almost like plastic (not porous), they are likely poly.

    Good luck