Swap to 1994 Cobra ECU
- Thread starter bcspy
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greenlantern
Member
bcspy said:
The Cobra from what i've read is supposed to have a better air fuel curve. In order to put it in your stock GT you need to leave the mass air meter you have in the car because both the GT and the Cobra use the same mass air meter calibrated for 19lb injectors. The difference is the Cobra computer itself compensates for this interneally so you can run 24lb injectors. Sounds a little wierd but beleive me I've been where your at and have investigated it completely.
Personnally the honest truth is that both the GT(T4MO) and Cobra (J4JL)computers suck. Both are gonna pull timming when you need it the most, during acceleration and changing gears. I would do an A9L conversion or get a custom burned chip or tweecer. I don't car for chips because I change my combo up to often which means I would be getting it reburned constantly. I don't care for tweecers because I don't have the patience to sit there and adjust tables. I went for the A9L conversion because it was a huge improvement over stock and I can run pretty much whatever I want and don't have to fool with it.
Slow5.0
Active Member
greenlantern
Member
bcspy said:
An A9L conversion is a kit you can buy from Pro-M that will allow you run a 93 Mustang GT computer. You see the 93 Computer has a much more aggressive air fuel curve than the 94-95 GT and Cobra's. Plus the 93 doesn't pull timming when shifting or accelerating like the 94-95. Here's where I bought mine.
http://pro-flow.com/Gallery Files/Meter Accessories/Mass Air Conversion/Wiring Harnesses.htm
I forget what the exact cost was I think for the kit itself without the computer was about $276. I think with the computer is about $490. I would suggest buying the kit and getting an A9L computer off of ebay.
Now lots of guys here are fans of the tweecer and thats fine if thats what you wanna do. I mean if your into changing your air/fuel curve and making your own tune than the tweecer is the way to go. I know guys who run it and some like it, others hate it. There is a learning curve and you ain't gonna learn it overnight.
I for one don't have the time to learn how to use it and frankly don't care to screw with it. The A9L is put it in and forget about it and I like that. The A9L with allow you to run pretty much whatever cam or combo you want and will still give you decent idle. Before this mod I had all kinds of idle problems this was my fix, and Im very happy with the performance it gives.
A pcm is a pcm is a pcm !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They all have good and bad points.
The GT and Cobra are in the same family and some things can be done with them that you can't with the older fox pcm but it is not that big of a deal for the most part.
The thing all three of them have in common is that without a tuning interface or chip .... all you got is a stock pcm when you switch between them.
If you go far enough with your combo your gonna want to tune for drivability or power or most likely both.
The greatest benefit or gain comes not from switching between them but from the tuning of them .... any of them.
Later
Grady
They all have good and bad points.
The GT and Cobra are in the same family and some things can be done with them that you can't with the older fox pcm but it is not that big of a deal for the most part.
The thing all three of them have in common is that without a tuning interface or chip .... all you got is a stock pcm when you switch between them.
If you go far enough with your combo your gonna want to tune for drivability or power or most likely both.
The greatest benefit or gain comes not from switching between them but from the tuning of them .... any of them.
Later
Grady
Rootus
Officially Addicted
IMO the A9L swap is no longer an acceptable option -- there are no upsides, only downsides. It costs more than a chip, does not give you anything a chip cannot give you, and has less functionality than a 94+ EEC.
I see two options:
1. Get a TwEECer, PMS, EEC Tuner, or some other kind of self-tuning device. This is for the folks who are able to do their own tuning, and like it.
2. Buy a chip. For those who just want it to run well, and do not want to tweak anything themselves, this is the way to go.
Both of these options are cheaper than an A9L swap. Aside from the tuning, both are easier too.
Dave
I see two options:
1. Get a TwEECer, PMS, EEC Tuner, or some other kind of self-tuning device. This is for the folks who are able to do their own tuning, and like it.
2. Buy a chip. For those who just want it to run well, and do not want to tweak anything themselves, this is the way to go.
Both of these options are cheaper than an A9L swap. Aside from the tuning, both are easier too.
Dave
greenlantern
Member
A9L not an option? Sorry rootus can't agree with you there. The stock
computer in the GT and Cobra is not an option. And as far as chips go what kind of chip are you talking about. Off the shelf chips? That's the only way I can see you getting one thats ready to go for less than $300 bucks. And those chips are garbage compared to a custom burned one. Now you might be able to buy a custom burned chip for $300 or 350 depending on the brand but thats just for the chip. Next you car needs to be dynoed once or twice to get the programming right, that plus labor you could easily be looking at $500 to $600 easy. Change something in your combo and your gonna get hit again to reburn.
I don't doubt that the self tunning device is the best option and chips aren't a bad option but don't tell me that the A9L isn't because I know to many guys who use it and win with it. There is no one size fits all solution here.
computer in the GT and Cobra is not an option. And as far as chips go what kind of chip are you talking about. Off the shelf chips? That's the only way I can see you getting one thats ready to go for less than $300 bucks. And those chips are garbage compared to a custom burned one. Now you might be able to buy a custom burned chip for $300 or 350 depending on the brand but thats just for the chip. Next you car needs to be dynoed once or twice to get the programming right, that plus labor you could easily be looking at $500 to $600 easy. Change something in your combo and your gonna get hit again to reburn.
I don't doubt that the self tunning device is the best option and chips aren't a bad option but don't tell me that the A9L isn't because I know to many guys who use it and win with it. There is no one size fits all solution here.
Rootus
Officially Addicted
IMO the stock computer from any year is not an option. Including the A9L.greenlantern said:
I can get one burned locally for $350. That is $200+ less than the PIH.
The problem with the A9L is that it is still a stock setup. It is somewhat more tolerant of cams, but even a moderately big cam will cause it to start surging. So you end up with a tuning device anyway, and the money spent on the A9L is wasted. You can make good power with an A9L, but you never get the driveability.
Dave
blksn955.o
Founding Member
greenlantern said:
well around here the custom tune is $450-500 and that includes dyno time and the 2 setting flip chip (were you can have 2 sep. tunes. ie. one for N/A and one for n2o), from the guy you may have seen in the mags that did the eaton porting called APTEN. now how is that ever going to not beat out the a9 family of processor? You have a custom fuel/spark setup for YOUR combo, You get 100% drivability/gas milage/smog legal, and the power will be more than that of any stock processor.
Now stock for stock the a9 family is better and less prone to mod issues. Now having a modded engine say with a H/C/I that is preaty common even with just one of the 3 any stock processor tune will be off and not optimal so your stock processor is still not as good as a tune as a custom/ self tuned deal. Even with the "bad" 94-95 processors once you change the bad things, and you can or the tuner can, your taking all the "reasons" out of the a9 swap.
Bottom line is your going to spend a good bit of money, either you will have a
1. stock ecu with self tuner = you can change as you change your setup
2. stock ecu with custom tune = you should wait until your done with the mods so you dont have to get it re-done.
3. stock a9 swap = a stock ecu and if you plan on modding more you will run into that ecu's wall and need to get it tuned (if your not already), and no matter what you will have spent you will still need a tune of some kind to get the most out of it even if your alittle bit modded.
The whole a9 swap was the only option for the SD/94-95 guys back in the early 90's and there were no tuners/self tuners that gave you access to the ecu's tables. That was also the case as the 94-95 ecu was around before the tuners were around, its just a old bandaid fix.
Slow5.0
Active Member
$490 for A9L PCM + $297 = $787 and you will still need chip so thats like $1100 , why don't you buy Tweecet or EEC tuner and make your own tune cheapper
Beliwe me i had gone with same problem like you and i end up with TwEECer RT and i love it
Beliwe me i had gone with same problem like you and i end up with TwEECer RT and i love it
blksn955.o
Founding Member
That price was 297 without the computer and 490 for the kit that included the computer. The cheaper one would just have wires and stuff and the pricy one would have the wires and computer. So it would be 490 for everything. The wording seems to have thrown you.
BTW-- slow I have noticed your grammar is getting better, keep posting
BTW-- slow I have noticed your grammar is getting better, keep posting
Slow5.0
Active Member
blksn955.o said:BTW-- slow I have noticed your grammer is getting better, keep posting
Thanks man, and BTW i'm almost at 2000 post goal
Rootus
Officially Addicted
<ahem> You mean grammar.blksn955.o said:BTW-- slow I have noticed your grammer is getting better, keep posting
Dave
greenlantern
Member
Well to each is own I don't wanna try to sell anybody anything. But since we seem to have a lot of guys here using the tuner give us some of the before and after gains in HP, torque and improve 1/4 mile times your tuner gave you.
AznStanger3v
Active Member
im more of a fan of dyno tuning. i cant afford a laptop and i have a very short temper, so the TweeCer isnt for me just yet
SWYZ721
Member
sorry I am still in my research phase as far as tuning goes, so this may sound ignorant, but would it be possible to use the tweecer and then load the A9L settings?
Rootus
Officially Addicted
No -- the A9L uses a different strategy than the 94+ EEC-IV, and not everything is the same. Some if it is very similar however. There is nothing about the A9L that you would want to copy over anyway. You would start with a J4J1 tune for driveability, and then adjust fuel & spark tables for power.SWYZ721 said:
297/325 SAE before tuning, 310/336 SAE after. 0.3 seconds improvement in ET, 2 mph improvement in trap speed.greenlantern said:
Dave
My goodness when I replied in this thread early this morning I did not expect it would go any farther than one more post or maybe two.
My take on the fox pcm retrofit is that you gain some ground with it up to a point. Keep in mind two things with the retrofit.
1. The allmighty A9L will fall short, (drivability & power) even in the car it was designed for if you go far enough with the mods.
2. The A9l in our cars is not really an ideal fix as the older Stangs were rpm based and our Stangs are load based.
The most obvious prob is the act for the older Stangs is in the intake and our act is in the intake pipe. It should be plain to see that the older pcm in our car is going to see much colder temps than it is expecting. We could go on and on but you can get the idea with that one example.
Again, the retrofit pcm thing can be a
benefit for sure but IMHO, I think other options offer more flexability if you go far enough with the combo that drivability has become an issue or maximum power is a must.
Later
Grady
My take on the fox pcm retrofit is that you gain some ground with it up to a point. Keep in mind two things with the retrofit.
1. The allmighty A9L will fall short, (drivability & power) even in the car it was designed for if you go far enough with the mods.
2. The A9l in our cars is not really an ideal fix as the older Stangs were rpm based and our Stangs are load based.
The most obvious prob is the act for the older Stangs is in the intake and our act is in the intake pipe. It should be plain to see that the older pcm in our car is going to see much colder temps than it is expecting. We could go on and on but you can get the idea with that one example.
Again, the retrofit pcm thing can be a
benefit for sure but IMHO, I think other options offer more flexability if you go far enough with the combo that drivability has become an issue or maximum power is a must.
Later
Grady
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