The Truth about FOX FRONT BRAKES!

Discussion in 'Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech' started by custom89stang, Feb 17, 2004.

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  1. DONT MEAN TO BASH YOU GUYS. (Matt/blackfox)

    Okay, Matt and BlackFox5.0, I dont care how smart you think you are. But if you think that a full rotor (non-slotted/dimpled) is better because it has more surface area you are flat out wrong. Slotted/dimpled rotors are better. Unless you want to show me some actually tests Matt and BlackFox5.0 and anyone else, you HAVE to quit giving false information..

    So here i go....

    Why slotted/dimpled rotors are better?

    1. Non Slotted/dimpled dont release as much heat, i dont care what kind of pads you have, the more heat, the worse the braking. The whole point of Slotted/dimpled is to cool the brakes.

    2. You say that a Non Slotted/dimpled has more surface area for breaking and that is why they are better thats wrong to.

    The holes and slots give the Brakes better grabbing ability to slow down and like they pointed out above, less mass.....

    To prove my point, why do you think brake pads with dimpled/slotted rotors where out faster? You'd think since they'd have less surface area they would wear out slower, but they dont! NEWSFLASH, they grab better and wear out faster because they are better with braking. More of the pad gets scraped off because they grab the slots/dimples better.

    Also, they have less mass, which of course = better braking.

    Any questions?

    The only drawback is the cracking/ warping.......of the slotted rotos. In that case, send them back, the manufacturer is either a POS or the product was, get a new one!!!

    I'm talking budget mostly, for this post and the post below.
  2. So for better front braking on fox. And i mean if you wanna see a great improvement.

    Do these 6 things and i promise you will not rearend anyone again. (Unless you are really dumb).

    1.73mm Calipers (steel, 2 piston)
    2.Slotted Rotors
    3.Good brake pads (hawk?)
    4.Stainless brake lines
    5.New Fluid (Best there is, no cheapo brands)

    6.Caliper Bushings? Stock rubber ones are $&%#!

    For the rear, convert to Disc, thats all i can say about that. sells a kit with everything (including the master cylinder) for 700$ Discs in the back are 100 times better than drums in the back.
  3. Where are your "actual tests"?
  4. The companies test stock vs. slotter/dimpled. They wouldnt be selling them if they were worse. There would be such an outcry from all the racing communities if they were worse.
  5. 2 piston 73mm calipers?
  6. ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo :flame: I feel a flame war coming on!

    My opinion would be Slotted/Drilled rotors might not actually do much for a street car,

    The Slots and Drills are there for cooling down the rotors at High speeds, Works wonders for Race cars and thats why they are used for RACE cars,

    But seriously I think its just show for the street,

    If I were at the track a lot with my car and I was trapping like 10 seconds Id really invest in a race setup with slotted/drilled rotors, because they ARE better,

    But I dont think street cars need them, I dont think they would have any affect, Good ro Bad on a street car.
    Thats my 2 cents
  7. Thank you starscreamer, at least you know that slotted/dimpled are better. If not at least for the less rotating mass they have, but for also the extra grab they give the pads. More cooling !!!
  8. Grover drill. Sorry, i read that wrong on !!! They ARE single piston calipers and in STEEL. Not dual, thanks for pointing that out.
  9. Well my veiws on them as being better would be for Race applications,

    I think there for "Show" on street cars,

    just something else for us gearheads to buy :D

    its like spark plugs,
    I personally buy Stock Yummy Motorcraft all the time,
    BUT there is Iridium Tipped, Platinum, Multi spark etc etc etc all inspired from Race cars,

    Now I seriously Doubt any real car in "Motorsports" of any kind use Copper core plugs,
    Id guess they use expensive plugs with all of the above mentioned in them,
    Now I "know" the iridium plugs are better, But in a road car would I REALLY feel the difference?

    Dont think so, So ill save my money for other upgrade's on my car :D
  10. the slots and dimples take away mass and do let the rotor cool down...but they are really there to vent gas that builds up in between the pad and the rotor, which allows the pad to actually touch the rotor more completely
  11. I must have missed something drastically important that pertains to all of that, but i see both sides to have some sort of reason. I could see how you would think that more surface contact area would equal more friction and more grip. I also understand how slots and holes help cooling and friction as well. Like i said, i'm not on either side here, but here's what i see:

    Lets say you take your car out on a huge sheet of steel that represents a road. (i know this might be impossible, it's just a hypothetical). Lets say you've got slicks on the back of your car. You're going to get less traction with a slick as apposed to a tire with some kind of tread, because the tread acts like fingers in a way and grap the surface. If you've ever looked into any hardcore offroading, you know that the more lines in your tread means the more traction you'll get on smooth rocks, because the tires can flex and grip. I think a similar situation occurs with a slotted rotor, because it in turn grips the pad, which usually also has at least 2 grooves in it. When the pad is pressed up against the slotted rotor durring hard breaking, the pad actually recesses into the rotor's slots ever so slightly, which is what causes the pads to wear out quicker. Because of this, you're getting a much higher friction than you would without those slots, not to mention i dont think anyone can argue the fact that slotted rotors run cooler and expell gasses better than smooth rotors.

    I think the truth behind this debate is this: Non slotted rotors do give more "initial" grip, because of that increased surface area. But i seriously doubt that grip lasts at all long enough to make the difference, considering how quickly they'll heat up as compared to a slotted rotor. The slotted rotor will cool quicker and give at least a near equal friction.

    Here's a silly little example. Go get a ruler or a butter knife or something with an edge that could represent the slots in an otherwise smooth surface, and run your finger along it really quickly. After you clean up the blood and bandage the cut (lol) run another finger down the smooth part. See how less contact surface doesnt always mean more friction?
  12. well guys its the stainless lines, hawk pads, caliper bushings and either the 73mm calipers or powerslot rotors..i dont have the money for way..its either a stock rotor with 73 calipers, or stock calipers with powerslot rotors...whats the best setup bang for the buck
  13. starscream i have a question. if i get the 73mm calipers off the '91 Lincoln Mark VII will the steel bushings from maximum motorsports still bolt directly on? Cuz i'm thinking

    Steel brake lines. 73MM Calipers. Steel bushings. and of course new pads
  14. Tough call. But i'd go for the BIGGER CALIPERS!

    Just get the '91 Lincoln Mark VII remanufactured 73mm Calipers from Schucks or NAPA. They should bolt right on. Should be like 30$ each (thats what i've heard) so when you ask, tell me what they say about price.
  15. Straight from Bear's website....

    What are the benefits to Crossdrilling, Slotting, and Zinc-Washing my rotors?
    In years past, crossdrilling and/or Slotting the rotor for racing purposes was beneficial by providing a way to expel the gasses created when the bonding agents employed to manufacture the pads began to break down at extreme temperatures. This condition is often referred to as “green pad fade” or “outgassing”. When it does occur, the driver still has a good firm brake pedal, but simply little or no friction. Since this normally happens only at temperatures witnessed in racing, this can be very exciting!

    However, with today’s race pad technology, ‘outgassing’ is no longer much of a concern. When shopping for races pads, or even ultra-high performance road pads, look for the phrases, “dynamic surface treatment”, “race ready”, and/or, “pre-burnished”. When these or similar statements are made by the pad manufacturer, the pad in question will likely have little or no problem with ‘outgassing’. Ironically more pedestrian pads used on most streetcars will still exhibit ‘outgassing’, but only when used at temperatures normally only encountered on the racetrack.

    Although crossdrilling and/or slotting will provide a welcome path to expend any gasses when and if they develop, it is primarily a visual enhancement behind today’s often wide-open wheel designs.

    Crossdrilling offers the greatest gas relief pathway, but creates potential “stress risers” from which cracks can occur. Baer’s rotors are cast with crossdrilling in mind, from the material specified, to curved vanes, behind which the holes are placed to minimize potential crack migration. Slotted surfaces are what Baer recommends for track only use. Slotted only rotors are offered as an option for any of Baer’s offerings.

    Zinc washing is then done to provide a barrier, which resists development of surface scales or rust.

    I trust that baer knows what they are talking about, not you custom89stang

    I would imagine the pads wear out faster b/c the holes/slots have sharp edges cutting the pads.
  16. hey custom89stang where can u buy those calipers online..the 91 lincln etc...thats what you should get right? where u gettin em..and what rotor are u gonna use..motorcraft stock or which brand?
  17. Latham, Go to your local NAPA AUTO PARTS OR SCHUCKS AUTO PARTS. and ask for the '91 Lincoln Mark VII remanufactured (Steel calipers if they have them) 73mm calipers. Then you will need matching high performance brake pads that are 73mm.

    You said, you would not buy the rotors and the calipers at the same time. So your asking what to do if you did?
  18. Where did all this "more surface area = more friction" come from?
  19. That came from MATT90GT and BLACKFOX5.0, I KNOW GT40XStang9, its a bunch of BS! Hate people who dont know what they're talking about.

    And i'm telling you, slotted/cross drilled grabs better. And to prove it, they wear out faster because they grab better. (BRAKE BETTER)
  20. wow they are freakin 25 dollars each!!! WTF?!! well then why the hell does Maximum motorsports and brothers performanc ehave bot calipers for like 130 dollars??!! or more!?!
    i dont get it?
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