didnt you have a very mild setup at one time ( not sure what all u have now ), gt40s, tmoss intake, pulleys, exh, small cam.....and you were running low 13's?
Thumper Performance E7 Heads : Who has them and how is the performance?
- Thread starter fiveoho
- Start date
didnt you have a very mild setup at one time ( not sure what all u have now ), gt40s, tmoss intake, pulleys, exh, small cam.....and you were running low 13's?
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It looks to me you have a grasp on what is real here
I certainly don't see the things you are saying here as being offensive or
anything like that
You have most likely seen these examples before ... but ... if it can help you in
any way ... here is what others have done with various iron heads
Grady
thanks grady. and thanks for the chart as well
. if i did choose a gt40 iron based combo i would think whp numbers could go anywhere from 230 on up to 285 or so. im not gonna lie, numbers would make me feel good but im sure there are cars out there that make 250 whp that can out run cars making 275 whp. numbers arent everything, just a very mild fun car would be pretty cool. i dont street race, no joke. but i would like the capability to be able to walk a 99-04 car pretty bad and hang with a 03/04 mach in terms of comparison.
just a quick look on Ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TRIC...temQQhashZitem320210220439QQitemZ320210220439
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford...215124128QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item230215124128
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FORD...193057743QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item190193057743
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GT-4...209479065QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item180209479065
There are a lot of GT-40 heads on there
Have you tried looking in the stangnet classifieds? Corral? I agree with everything that Killer Canary said, while the thumper heads are very well done heads I just dont see the point of putting money into stock heads. You have a bigger foundation to grow from with aluminum heads and you save weight.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TRIC...temQQhashZitem320210220439QQitemZ320210220439
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford...215124128QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item230215124128
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FORD...193057743QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item190193057743
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GT-4...209479065QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item180209479065
There are a lot of GT-40 heads on there
Have you tried looking in the stangnet classifieds? Corral? I agree with everything that Killer Canary said, while the thumper heads are very well done heads I just dont see the point of putting money into stock heads. You have a bigger foundation to grow from with aluminum heads and you save weight.
I'm glad you found that little chart helpful
I'll sum up my feelings about the OEM stuff like this
If you are in this for the long haul and you wanna do it NA
I'd do a nice set of stud mount Aluminum heads
and
A Custom Cam so you can specify exactly the power band you desire :Word:
Just as the other fellow said ... "This is the foundation you will build upon"
If you installed those heads and cam ........
You'd have the biggest part of the motor work done and out of the way
Heck Fire ... You could just bolt on all the other stock stuff and upgrade it
piece by piece as the money became available.
Of Course ... it will take longer if the money comes in a little at a time
but
Do you wanna get to 260-270 quicker
or
Do you wanna get to 300-310 with a little bit more time
btw ... If you do go iron heads
One last tip for you that I think makes good financial sense
Those heads I self ported
I paid like 50 bux for them and they already had upgraded springs
I then put another 200-250 bux in them for carbide burs, sanding rolls,
and labor for valve work.
I did NOT pay for ped roller rockers as they do almost next to nothing
So ... you see ... I can get my money back out of those old heads
I'd not sink a lot of money in iron heads
That way ... If you decide to step up to better flowing heads ...
You don't take too big of a hit in the wallet
Good Luck with all your plans ... which ever way you go
Grady
I'll sum up my feelings about the OEM stuff like this
If you are in this for the long haul and you wanna do it NA
I'd do a nice set of stud mount Aluminum heads
and
A Custom Cam so you can specify exactly the power band you desire :Word:
Just as the other fellow said ... "This is the foundation you will build upon"
If you installed those heads and cam ........
You'd have the biggest part of the motor work done and out of the way
Heck Fire ... You could just bolt on all the other stock stuff and upgrade it
piece by piece as the money became available.
Of Course ... it will take longer if the money comes in a little at a time
but
Do you wanna get to 260-270 quicker
or
Do you wanna get to 300-310 with a little bit more time
btw ... If you do go iron heads
One last tip for you that I think makes good financial sense
Those heads I self ported
I paid like 50 bux for them and they already had upgraded springs
I then put another 200-250 bux in them for carbide burs, sanding rolls,
and labor for valve work.
I did NOT pay for ped roller rockers as they do almost next to nothing
So ... you see ... I can get my money back out of those old heads
I'd not sink a lot of money in iron heads
That way ... If you decide to step up to better flowing heads ...
You don't take too big of a hit in the wallet
Good Luck with all your plans ... which ever way you go
Grady
Let me help. After being there and doing that it is NOT worth buying aluminum heads on a 5.0 for the COST. Now..BIGGE C.I. yes, maybe. BUT 5.0?? You can make very very near the same power of that aluminum I don't care what the specs are. The 40+ or - pounds aren't going to make a difference unless you are a track guy. AskI think..green gt!
Grady for once ..I respectfully disagree with you based on my personal experience and the experience of many stangneters hear who were smarter than me and went (gt40 iron mainly) or thumper and saved their money. Don't hate me! lol.
Grady for once ..I respectfully disagree with you based on my personal experience and the experience of many stangneters hear who were smarter than me and went (gt40 iron mainly) or thumper and saved their money. Don't hate me! lol.
blksn955.o
Founding Member
Yes, the same heads I have ported now and a tmoss ported stock intake and TFS1 cam...no tuning and ran a 13.5 @102 the first and only time out with that combo on a 2.2-2.4 60ft (best prev. setup was a 1.9 and avg 2.0 or so before). On the stock longblock, 14*, pullies, exh., and gears I ran 14.3 and 13.1 on a 125 shot I pieced together for about $200.
90% of my issues have been valvetrain with the new setup. I think I collapsed a few lifters since I was running a SEVERLY long pushrod. The car sat for 4-5mo while I sorted out the geometry and by the time I got the correct PR I had a feeling the lifters may be narfed...new lifters were not in the budget at the time and I wanted to get some miles on it. I figured they would show up as a bad component (one reason I think my power started really slowing down after 4k on the dyno) and a $25 gasket set and a few hours would be all the loss I would take when I had the money to get new lifters.
The correct PR did show a vast improvement in power. I pulled a VC not an hour after running it to get it warmed up last fall. On some of the rockers that were without any load on them (not on the cam lobes) I could push the rocker/PR down into the lifter as if it held 0 preasure. They would move back up and none of the PR have any up/down play by themselvs so it seems the lifters are done...
Let me help. After being there and doing that it is NOT worth buying aluminum heads on a 5.0 for the COST. Now..BIGGE C.I. yes, maybe. BUT 5.0?? You can make very very near the same power of that aluminum I don't care what the specs are. The 40+ or - pounds aren't going to make a difference unless you are a track guy. AskI think..green gt!
Grady for once ..I respectfully disagree with you based on my personal experience and the experience of many stangneters hear who were smarter than me and went (gt40 iron mainly) or thumper and saved their money. Don't hate me! lol.
Of course I don't hate you Keith
I feel we all are friends here on this site :Word:
We all have what we believe to be our minimum expectations
I had a 3 or 4 page reply all typed up about why I bailed on OEM stuff
I went into all the details
Showing what you can obtain with aftermarket stuff
besides
About 15% more peak power
After reading it all ...........
I just flushed it
cause
I suspect nobody listens to any of that kind of stuff I post up anyway
Peak Power or Low ET only seems to be the all encompassing realm a lot
of peeps seem to be most comfortable with so kinda felt I was just pissin
into the wind
Grady
blksn955.o
Founding Member
I think it could have gone a 13.2 or so on a 1.8 60ft. From my exp. a bad (spinning) 60ft tends to add mph so its not an exact match if you ask me. Yes it did have more left in it though.
Not bad for bone stock gt40's and a ported stock intake, after looking at the stock ports and seeing a few pics of properly ported E7's I think a stock gt40 headed combo and a properly ported E7 combo should be really close if not leaning to the E7 combo.
Not bad for bone stock gt40's and a ported stock intake, after looking at the stock ports and seeing a few pics of properly ported E7's I think a stock gt40 headed combo and a properly ported E7 combo should be really close if not leaning to the E7 combo.
preciate the links man. yea i been checking all of the above, especially corral. theres some good budget stuff on there.
remember, budget
just buy plain jane factory stamped steel rockers? how much can i save by getting those?
Yes, the same heads I have ported now and a tmoss ported stock intake and TFS1 cam...no tuning and ran a 13.5 @102 the first and only time out with that combo on a 2.2-2.4 60ft (best prev. setup was a 1.9 and avg 2.0 or so before). On the stock longblock, 14*, pullies, exh., and gears I ran 14.3 and 13.1 on a 125 shot I pieced together for about $200.
90% of my issues have been valvetrain with the new setup. I think I collapsed a few lifters since I was running a SEVERLY long pushrod. The car sat for 4-5mo while I sorted out the geometry and by the time I got the correct PR I had a feeling the lifters may be narfed...new lifters were not in the budget at the time and I wanted to get some miles on it. I figured they would show up as a bad component (one reason I think my power started really slowing down after 4k on the dyno) and a $25 gasket set and a few hours would be all the loss I would take when I had the money to get new lifters.
The correct PR did show a vast improvement in power. I pulled a VC not an hour after running it to get it warmed up last fall. On some of the rockers that were without any load on them (not on the cam lobes) I could push the rocker/PR down into the lifter as if it held 0 preasure. They would move back up and none of the PR have any up/down play by themselvs so it seems the lifters are done...
i thought i was right on that. thats pretty nice numbers considering the parts. i would be happy with that. what gear did u have when u ran that 13.5? was the car pretty fun on the street?
glad to hear u got your VT issues sorted all out. hope its smooth sailin' for ya from here out with the motor
Let me help. After being there and doing that it is NOT worth buying aluminum heads on a 5.0 for the COST. Now..BIGGE C.I. yes, maybe. BUT 5.0?? You can make very very near the same power of that aluminum I don't care what the specs are. The 40+ or - pounds aren't going to make a difference unless you are a track guy. AskI think..green gt!
Grady for once ..I respectfully disagree with you based on my personal experience and the experience of many stangneters hear who were smarter than me and went (gt40 iron mainly) or thumper and saved their money. Don't hate me! lol.
Keith, what lead you to this sort of thinking? I've been here for a VERY long time and still have yet to see any GT40/thumper headed combos put up the same numbers as the normal aluminum headed combo cars do. The very few Gt40/GT40P cars that are over 300rwhp were not budget builds and were set up with the purpose of eclipsing those marks no matter what. A mild off the shelf aluminum head, cam and intake should and would make the same power for the same price as these purpose built Gt40/GT40P combos and then have the ability to be ported later. Losing 40lbs off the nose is not only for track guys as it will make the car more responsive in braking, acceleration, traction, and handling no matter if its a 100% street car or 100% drag car. the less mass that you need to move in any situation is better as I know you are aware.
There is nothing wrong with budget builds, but putting money into ported stockers is still not a wise decision in my book. I've said it many times but if I were to do a budget build the only head I'd even consider is a GT40P with a good set of valve springs. I wouldn't even mess with porting them.
Also for the original poster, a stock headed 94-95 5 speed coupe with 3.73/4.10's, a street style intake (like an edelbrock performer), TB, headers, off road X/H pipe, 2.5" cat back, pulleys, and a homemade CAI should trap 100-101mph depending on weight and the DA of the track. It will take another 3-4mph minimum to hang with a stock mach 1, but that should be enough to stay even with a stock 99-04 GT. A 94-95 coupe setup with way should be a high 13 second car on street tires with a driver with a few passes under his belt, or a low 13 second one with a good driver and sticky tires. There have been a select few who have actually gotten into the 12's with similar combos, but again they were more purpose built to run that number than 99% of the other guys here would do.
The guys that have turned really good times in a bolt-on GT40 headed combo that come to mind are Jackie Chan and GMKILLR in their 94-95 cobras, both of which are VERY good drivers and their combos ran high 12's at ~105mph. Put them, their tires, and suspension on one of the many aluminum headed HCI cars on here and I can guarantee that car would put up way better numbers than the owner of said car could. If I'm not mistaken they dyno'd around 260-265rwhp with their cobras.
Sure PAul. Let's first say I am a "street" guy and you are a track guy - and a master at that - yes true.
The track #'s really make no difference to me..for the most part. So I take those out of my equasion..that relates to the 40 or so # difference in weight and slightly better flow, etc... that track guys worry about.
What led me to this conclusion?
1. When I found out that several guys on here with gt40's were within 10-20rwhp of my aluminum head combo for ALOT less money than I paid..($1300+ for tftw heads vs. $500 SOMETIMES LESS! for gt40's) I knew I made the wrong decision.
2. I felt the difference in 20 or so.. rwhp. I have had (at this point) many different combo's in my car lollol!!! (for better or worse). It is not worth $800-900 more by any stretch...again my opinion.
I have felt even 40rwhp differences.. now that is a big difference BUT still on the street? LOL, it's not a TREMENDOUS difference.
I have fely 50-100rwhp..on the street? that range does start to feel like you've made a change and the car feels alot faster. I compare that to the $$ difference and then make a decision.
3. I feel no difference on the street by taking the 40 or so # off the front end lol. No kidding.
So I have to re-iterate.. I am a street street street guy and these are my opinions from my experience. I feel TQ on the street..alot more than HP. :SNSign:
p.s. I like your comment on the gt40p's and NO PORTING. I think it is dead on. I'd like to also remind everyone to not throw away gradies "specs" .. I didn't mean it that way. Just that some of us don't need to be that close or aren't counting each .25 rwhp. Does that help? Sorry if that didn't come out right.
The track #'s really make no difference to me..for the most part. So I take those out of my equasion..that relates to the 40 or so # difference in weight and slightly better flow, etc... that track guys worry about.
What led me to this conclusion?
1. When I found out that several guys on here with gt40's were within 10-20rwhp of my aluminum head combo for ALOT less money than I paid..($1300+ for tftw heads vs. $500 SOMETIMES LESS! for gt40's) I knew I made the wrong decision.
2. I felt the difference in 20 or so.. rwhp. I have had (at this point) many different combo's in my car lollol!!! (for better or worse). It is not worth $800-900 more by any stretch...again my opinion.
I have felt even 40rwhp differences.. now that is a big difference BUT still on the street? LOL, it's not a TREMENDOUS difference.
I have fely 50-100rwhp..on the street? that range does start to feel like you've made a change and the car feels alot faster. I compare that to the $$ difference and then make a decision.
3. I feel no difference on the street by taking the 40 or so # off the front end lol. No kidding.
So I have to re-iterate.. I am a street street street guy and these are my opinions from my experience. I feel TQ on the street..alot more than HP. :SNSign:
p.s. I like your comment on the gt40p's and NO PORTING. I think it is dead on. I'd like to also remind everyone to not throw away gradies "specs" .. I didn't mean it that way. Just that some of us don't need to be that close or aren't counting each .25 rwhp. Does that help? Sorry if that didn't come out right.
I guess I should have been a bit more clear here
The point I was trying to get across is I re-used the oem rockers
Had I bought some ped rr's ...
That would be just more money I would have sunken into those old heads
thus
Making it all the more difficult for me to recoup my money from them
and ... before you might bring it up
I ... myself ... Really don't care for ped rr's
so ... That means ........
I'd not consider buying some and then transferring them to a nicer pair of
heads later on
Grady
blksn955.o
Founding Member
3.73 gears. It was a blast, I only hit the bottle once (well twice but bad things happend that time, missed a shift and my window switch was on back order) with that combo and it pulled like a damn train.
I still have the bottle so if I can reach just 275 rwhp I am looking at around 400rwhp and 500ft-lbs on the 150 shot n2o jets, I have 175's as well...much more and I am really needing to look at a better block/whole different type of build and setup. That would be a hairdryer and a dart block with a lot less comp. than this motor has.
IF you can not have fun with that...your dead.
There is a guy close to me selling gt40p heads for $550 plus shipping
http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=980838
I just got back from doing business with him myself and he is an honest seller with one cool (and very attractive) wife.
http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=980838
I just got back from doing business with him myself and he is an honest seller with one cool (and very attractive) wife.
