Just swapped GT40 heads on the hatch. Everything is back together, the engine spins freely with no noise but won't light. At first I thought it wasn't getting fuel, but it definitely is. After several times cranking it, it's popping out the carb and even lit the fuel in the carb a few times. When I put the heads on, cylinder #1 was at TDC, and the rotor pointed to #1 cylinder when I installed the distributor. Could it be 180 degrees out?
Timing issue?
- Thread starter joshwfl
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lxman
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Putting the distributor back in and setting the timing.
Putting the distributor back in is fairly simple. Pull #1 sparkplug, put your finger in the sparkplug hole,
crank the engine until you feel compression. Then line up the TDC mark on the balancer with the pointer on the engine block.
The distributor starts out with the #1 plug wire lined up at about 12:00 with you facing it. Align the rotor to about 11:00, since it will turn clockwise as it slides into place.
Align the distributor rotor up with the #1 position marked on the cap, slide the distributor down into the block, (you may have to wiggle the rotor slightly to get the gear to engage) and then note where the rotor is pointing.
If it still lines up with #1 position on the cap, install the clamp and bolt. If not, pull it out and turn 1 tooth forwards or backwards and try again. Put the #1 spark plug back in and tighten it down, put the clamp on the distributor, but don't tighten it too much, as you will have to move the distributor to set the timing. Note that there is no such thing as one tooth off on a 5.0 Mustang. If it doesn't align perfectly with #1 position, you can turn the distributor until it does. The only problem is that if you are too far one way or the other, you can't turn the distributor enough to get the 10-14 degree optimum timing range.
10 degrees BTC is towards the drivers side marks.
Simplified diagram of what it looks like. Not all the marks are shown for ease of viewing.
ATC ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' '!' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' BTC
---------------- > Direction of Rotation as viewed standing in front of the engine.
The ' is 2 degrees.
The ! is TDC
The ' is 10 degrees BTC
Set the timing 5 marks BTC. Or if you prefer, 5 marks towards the driver's side.
Paint the mark on the harmonic balancer with paint -choose 10 degrees BTC or 14 degrees BTC or something else if you have NO2 or other power adder. I try to paint TDC red, 10 degrees BTC white and 14 degrees BTC blue.
At this point hook up all the wires, get out the timing light. Connect timing light up to battery & #1 spark plug. Then start the engine.
Remove the SPOUT connector (do a search if you want a picture of the SPOUT connector) It is the 2 pin rectangular plug on the distributor wiring harness. Only the EFI Mustang engines have a SPOUT. If yours is not EFI, check for a SPOUT: if you don’t find one, skip any instructions regarding the SPOUT
Warning: there are only two places the SPOUT should be when you time the engine. The first place is in your pocket while you are setting the timing and the second is back in the harness when you finish. The little bugger is too easy to lose and too hard to find a replacement.
Start engine, loosen distributor hold down with a 1/2" universal socket. Shine the timing light on the marks and turn the distributor until the mark lines up with the edge of the timing pointer. Tighten down the distributor hold down bolt, Replace the SPOUT connector and you are done.
The HO firing order is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8.
Non HO firing order is 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8
Putting the distributor back in is fairly simple. Pull #1 sparkplug, put your finger in the sparkplug hole,
crank the engine until you feel compression. Then line up the TDC mark on the balancer with the pointer on the engine block.
The distributor starts out with the #1 plug wire lined up at about 12:00 with you facing it. Align the rotor to about 11:00, since it will turn clockwise as it slides into place.
Align the distributor rotor up with the #1 position marked on the cap, slide the distributor down into the block, (you may have to wiggle the rotor slightly to get the gear to engage) and then note where the rotor is pointing.
If it still lines up with #1 position on the cap, install the clamp and bolt. If not, pull it out and turn 1 tooth forwards or backwards and try again. Put the #1 spark plug back in and tighten it down, put the clamp on the distributor, but don't tighten it too much, as you will have to move the distributor to set the timing. Note that there is no such thing as one tooth off on a 5.0 Mustang. If it doesn't align perfectly with #1 position, you can turn the distributor until it does. The only problem is that if you are too far one way or the other, you can't turn the distributor enough to get the 10-14 degree optimum timing range.
10 degrees BTC is towards the drivers side marks.
Simplified diagram of what it looks like. Not all the marks are shown for ease of viewing.
ATC ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' '!' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' BTC
---------------- > Direction of Rotation as viewed standing in front of the engine.
The ' is 2 degrees.
The ! is TDC
The ' is 10 degrees BTC
Set the timing 5 marks BTC. Or if you prefer, 5 marks towards the driver's side.
Paint the mark on the harmonic balancer with paint -choose 10 degrees BTC or 14 degrees BTC or something else if you have NO2 or other power adder. I try to paint TDC red, 10 degrees BTC white and 14 degrees BTC blue.
At this point hook up all the wires, get out the timing light. Connect timing light up to battery & #1 spark plug. Then start the engine.
Remove the SPOUT connector (do a search if you want a picture of the SPOUT connector) It is the 2 pin rectangular plug on the distributor wiring harness. Only the EFI Mustang engines have a SPOUT. If yours is not EFI, check for a SPOUT: if you don’t find one, skip any instructions regarding the SPOUT
Warning: there are only two places the SPOUT should be when you time the engine. The first place is in your pocket while you are setting the timing and the second is back in the harness when you finish. The little bugger is too easy to lose and too hard to find a replacement.
Start engine, loosen distributor hold down with a 1/2" universal socket. Shine the timing light on the marks and turn the distributor until the mark lines up with the edge of the timing pointer. Tighten down the distributor hold down bolt, Replace the SPOUT connector and you are done.
The HO firing order is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8.
Non HO firing order is 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8
Timing was dead on. It seems to struggle spinning over like the compression is really high. I have pedestal mount rockers, is it possible they're too tight? I used a torque wrench, but the manual said 65lbs, got a second manual that says 24lbs. Would the extra torque cause a no start? I do have good compression on the #1 cylinder.
Wildstringer
New Member
- Feb 20, 2011
- 65
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Seems like I've said this alot over the past couple days, try moving the #1 plug wire 180 degrees from where it is and run your firing order from there see if it starts.
If you overtighten the valves, it causes them to stay open, reducing the compression. It may also cause the valves to strike the piston as the engine turns.
Remove all the spark plugs and turn the engine over with a breaker bar & a 15/16" socket on the harmonic balancer bolt. If you hit a hard sport as you hand turn the engine, you have mechanical problems. Either a piston is striking a valve or there is something loose in the cylinder between the piston top and the cylinder head. If the engine does not have any place where the resistance to turning increases, then proceed to the next checklist.
Cranks Ok but no start for carb’d cars.
Updated 17-Jun-2008 to include firing order diagram
Carb'd cars require an old time approach to troubleshooting.
1.) Remove push on connector from starter solenoid and turn ignition switch on. Place car in neutral or Park. Remove coil wire from distributor & and hold 3/8” away from engine block. Jumper the screw with the red wire to the big bolt on the starter solenoid that has the battery wire connected to it. You should get a nice fat blue spark.
Most of the items are electrical in nature, so a test light, or even better, a voltmeter, is helpful to be sure they have power to them.
No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) Coil
B.) Distributor PIP sensor or points & condenser
C.) Bad ignition Box or Duraspark unit
D.) No power to ignition system wiring or ignition box (if used)
E.) Bad ignition switch
F.) Bad fuse links.
AutoZone wiring diagrams
http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiB..._us/0900823d/80/16/71/3c/0900823d8016713c.jsp for 79-88 model Mustangs
http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiB..._us/0900823d/80/19/59/5a/0900823d8019595a.jsp for 89-93 model Mustangs
http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiB..._us/0900823d/80/1d/db/3c/0900823d801ddb3c.jsp for 94-98 model Mustangs
2.) Spark at coil wire, pull #1 plug wire off at the spark plug and check to see spark. No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) Moisture inside distributor – remove cap, dry off & spray with WD40
B.) Distributor cap
C.) Rotor
D.) Spark Plug wires
E.) Coil weak or intermittent - you should see 3/8" fat blue spark with a good coil
3.) Spark at spark plug, but no start.
4.) Pull the air cleaner and sniff for fuel vapor - look for signs of flooding. If so, then press the accelerator to the floor and crank for a while – if the engine is flooded, this will clear it out. You may want to have a jumper battery & cables handy.
5.) Electric fuel pump if you have one, is it getting power? Use a volt meter or test light to probe the wires at the pump.
Don't see any evidence of flooding? Then pump the throttle - does the accelerator pump squirt fuel? If so then you should have enough fuel to start the engine. If not look for fuel delivery problems. Check the fuel pump, and fuel filter. Remember that most carbs have a fuel inlet filter that protects the float needle valve from trash.
Next, get a can of starting fluid (ether) from your local auto parts store: costs a $1.30 or so. Then pull the air cleaner, open the throttle, and spray the ether in it. Reinstall the air cleaner and try to start the car. Do not try to start the car without reinstalling the air cleaner. If it backfires, the chance for a serious fire is increased. If the engine starts now, you have a fuel delivery problem.
A warning about backfires: Holley carbs may have damaged power valves as the result of a backfire. The engine may be hard to start. Other symptoms are that it may seem to load up on fuel and be slow to accelerate until it clears out a bit.
6.) Fuel & ignition OK:
The HO firing order is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8.
Non HO firing order is 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8
Remove all the spark plugs and turn the engine over with a breaker bar & a 15/16" socket on the harmonic balancer bolt. If you hit a hard sport as you hand turn the engine, you have mechanical problems. Either a piston is striking a valve or there is something loose in the cylinder between the piston top and the cylinder head. If the engine does not have any place where the resistance to turning increases, then proceed to the next checklist.
Cranks Ok but no start for carb’d cars.
Updated 17-Jun-2008 to include firing order diagram
Carb'd cars require an old time approach to troubleshooting.
1.) Remove push on connector from starter solenoid and turn ignition switch on. Place car in neutral or Park. Remove coil wire from distributor & and hold 3/8” away from engine block. Jumper the screw with the red wire to the big bolt on the starter solenoid that has the battery wire connected to it. You should get a nice fat blue spark.
Most of the items are electrical in nature, so a test light, or even better, a voltmeter, is helpful to be sure they have power to them.
No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) Coil
B.) Distributor PIP sensor or points & condenser
C.) Bad ignition Box or Duraspark unit
D.) No power to ignition system wiring or ignition box (if used)
E.) Bad ignition switch
F.) Bad fuse links.
AutoZone wiring diagrams
http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiB..._us/0900823d/80/16/71/3c/0900823d8016713c.jsp for 79-88 model Mustangs
http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiB..._us/0900823d/80/19/59/5a/0900823d8019595a.jsp for 89-93 model Mustangs
http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiB..._us/0900823d/80/1d/db/3c/0900823d801ddb3c.jsp for 94-98 model Mustangs
2.) Spark at coil wire, pull #1 plug wire off at the spark plug and check to see spark. No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) Moisture inside distributor – remove cap, dry off & spray with WD40
B.) Distributor cap
C.) Rotor
D.) Spark Plug wires
E.) Coil weak or intermittent - you should see 3/8" fat blue spark with a good coil
3.) Spark at spark plug, but no start.
4.) Pull the air cleaner and sniff for fuel vapor - look for signs of flooding. If so, then press the accelerator to the floor and crank for a while – if the engine is flooded, this will clear it out. You may want to have a jumper battery & cables handy.
5.) Electric fuel pump if you have one, is it getting power? Use a volt meter or test light to probe the wires at the pump.
Don't see any evidence of flooding? Then pump the throttle - does the accelerator pump squirt fuel? If so then you should have enough fuel to start the engine. If not look for fuel delivery problems. Check the fuel pump, and fuel filter. Remember that most carbs have a fuel inlet filter that protects the float needle valve from trash.
Next, get a can of starting fluid (ether) from your local auto parts store: costs a $1.30 or so. Then pull the air cleaner, open the throttle, and spray the ether in it. Reinstall the air cleaner and try to start the car. Do not try to start the car without reinstalling the air cleaner. If it backfires, the chance for a serious fire is increased. If the engine starts now, you have a fuel delivery problem.
A warning about backfires: Holley carbs may have damaged power valves as the result of a backfire. The engine may be hard to start. Other symptoms are that it may seem to load up on fuel and be slow to accelerate until it clears out a bit.
6.) Fuel & ignition OK:
The HO firing order is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8.
Non HO firing order is 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8
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