Tremec TKO 500. Feedback and opinions?

[281pony]

i have a wc t5 right now behind my notch. its making 440/400 with plans to run 500+/500. i know at these levels my t5 will not last long.

i have the opportunity to get a tko 500 for my trans plus some cash. the tko has a bad syncro in 3rd, but has everything with it. bellhousing, clutch, crossmember, driveshaft. ect.

i can have the tko in my car and running for around 1000 and my wct-5. so a fresh tko for $1500 essentially.

i've been reading reviews on these. some say they shift fine, some say they don't. can i get some real input on this? at 500 rwhp, i dont know what else i can expect to last besides a t56 setup. i'm strongly considering this due to my funds situation and the local opportunity.

 

[Shaolin Crane]

TKO500 is rated for 500lbtq so it should be fine for your application

 

[jrichker]

The shifting quality is a roll of the dice. If the trans has the correct lubricant and break in, It should shift fine. If it does not, then it may not shift as smoothly as the T5. If you are going to replace the 3rd gear syncro, you should be prepared to refresh all of them. Tremec 3550/TKO 500/600 parts are much more expensive than T5 parts.

I don't know how you feel about the DYI thing when it comes to gears, some people don't like the idea of working on transmissions. If the DYI transmission fix idea isn't something that you would rather leave to someone else, here are some resources:

See http://www.ttcautomotive.com/English/onlineorder/product.asp to download a FREE service manual for T5 or Tremec 3550/TKO
You will need the Adobe Acrobat viewer which is also a free download – http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html

See http://www.hanlonmotorsports.com/ or http://www.ddperformance.com for parts

http://www.hanlonmotorsports.com/ also has a video on how to rebuild your T5 or Tremec. It costs about $20, and is worth every penny of it.

I did a Tremec 3550 rebuild, and it wasn't that difficult. The video was an immense help, and I would recommend viewing it. At $20, it will give you an opportunity to look and decide for yourself if you think that it is something you want to try to do.

For Tremec 3550 and TKO's:
You will also need a magnetic base and dial indicator to measure the endplay ($40-$120). http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNPDFF?PMPAGE=1354&PMCTLG=00

The tricky part is that you will need some shims to adjust the endplay in the two shafts: the new bearings will change the clearance. There is no way of telling what it will be until you get to the point that it is time to measure and check the clearances. Halon has the individual shims if you can wait for them. If you can't afford the wait, the auto parts store can sell you some shim stock and you can make your own, or have a machine shop make them for you. The shim stock comes in brass (easy to cut) and steel, in varying thicknesses. That's where the dial indicator & base come in - there is no way to get the clearance right without it.

Shims for T5 – peel & place http://www.5speeds.com/t5/shims.html
The new system only requires 3 shims. The main drive shim is .067” thick with peelable layers that are .002” thick. The countergear shim set uses a solid .087” service shim and a .077” thick peelable shim that has .002” thick layers.
A razor is required to start a “peel”. Use extreme caution. You can actually just peel down a shim until the desired preload is achieved. Remember to always seat bearing races by hitting all input, output, and countershafts with a rubber mallet before your final measurement.

Getting the car jacked up high enough to get the trans jack in and out from under the car was somewhat challenging. If you use a transmission jack, you will need 24" of clearance between the bottom of the car and ground. That means you will need a SUV jack and very tall jackstands. Since I didn't have a helper, getting the trans out of the car and back it was one of the more difficult things about the job. I built a trans jack out of 2x6's, some angle iron and a $25 floor jack. If I hadn't done that, I would have needed a helper or to rent a commercial trans jack. At 100+ pounds the Tremec 3550 was far too heavy for me to lift by myself.

 

[speedfreak94]

281pony, I used an old TKO-I in my '94 GT for over 40k miles and never had a single problem with it--and that was with plenty of weekend track abuse on 26x10 ET Streets and 5k launches. My power level wasn't quite where you are at but I'm sure my car was heavier and I have no doubts that it could have taken more.

TKO's are generally robust, but you will likely notice it to be less refined than a healthy T-5. What you get back in strength is completely worth it in my opinion, but I must say mine was always a bit noisy and didn't shift quite as smooth as the WC T-5. If your looking for the best of both worlds (refinement & strength), I recently upgraded to the T-56 Magnum and absolutely love it! It will set you back quite a bit though...

If you go with the used TKO make sure you know where the box is coming from, or be prepared to deal with whatever you get. Keep in mind that those transmissions are usually put in Mustangs with the sole purpose of being abused! Also, to second jrickter's note, if a manual trans has worn synchros, it may also have worn clutching teeth on some of the gears (i.e. more crap to replace).

Lastly, don't forget you'll need a TKO swap bellhousing, slipyoke, and possibly a new clutch disc (is it 10 or 26-spline?). Other than that the swap is very easy (as far tranny swaps go), and assuming the trans works as it should, you'll enjoy the peace of mind when smacking gears around town!

Hope that helps! Sorry for the long post!

 

[281pony]

thanks for all your responses.

i am just after how you owners liked/disliked them. i have a friend who makes the same power as me now at 440/400 and has been using his wc t-5 for years. my wc t-5 has been great so far, but i know it's not a guaranteed safe trans.

i know the guy who has the trans really well. if it came down to the thing being a nightmare, he would work out a deal with me. i'm going to think on it, possibly drive the car that has the trans in it.

thanks, great info for sure.. i was contemplating that t56 setup too. like you said, just a matter of $$.

 

[90mustangGT]

A new TKO500 I would recomend, but a (ab)used TKO500.... who knows what you're going to get. The TKO500 DOES take more effort to shift and is notchy, but it is heavy duty.

 

[jrichker]

I have a Tremec 3550, which is the same basic trans as the TKO 500 minus the input & output shaft upgrades. It has always been smooth shifting, it shifts better than the T5 I took out to put it in. My only complaint is that it is slightly noisier than the T5, but it shifts like a hot knife through butter! The shift throw is longer than a T5, but a MGW shifter is in the plan to fix that.

 

[281pony]

well i figure worst case, i have 1200 plus my wc t-5 invested for everything required. that would be for a fresh tko500, bellhousing, clutch, crossmember, ect.

i either do that trade, or i just keep using my wc t-5. its lasted a friend of mine for 3 + years now with nearly identical power in a heavier car. he even used drag radials with it

 

[2000xp8]

You are doing the right thing ditching your t5 while it's still good.
Odds are you are going to break it, and when you do it's worth nothing.

I use a 600, and while with 340rwhp i didn't care for the long first gear, or the heavy rpm drop from 4th to 5th, with my newly found power, it's a blessing.
Shifts fine for me, and always has.
The 500 has a different gear set, but should shift just as good as the 600.

If i were you, i'd buy it, take it to a qualified shop you trust and have them rebuild it.
Also make sure to get a shifter with stops. Promotion makes a plate for like $90 that's pretty good.
I know it's supposed to have internal stops, but i'm told if you are slamming gears they can break.

 

[281pony]

thanks for the input.

the dude selling it has a hook up on rebuilds. from what i understand, to make it like new for me, it'll be around 500. so that puts me at like 1200 bucks plus my wc t-5 invested.

seems pretty decent all in all since i won't pay shipping. plus all the accessories required are included and come right off another running fox.

 

[90mustangGT]

I use a 600, and while with 340rwhp i didn't care for the long first gear, or the heavy rpm drop from 4th to 5th, with my newly found power, it's a blessing.
Shifts fine for me, and always has.
The 500 has a different gear set, but should shift just as good as the 600.

The 600 is supose to be stronger, but that is only because of the higher (26 I think) spline of the input shaft. IMO, if I were to break my tranny, I would be estatic to find it was just the input shaft, so let that be the weakest link. The 600 like you said, has the higher first gear. Funny thing when I bought mine, people were saying I should have gone with the 600 because that higher first gear is a lot better, although they couldn't explain what for except the 1st and 2nd gear being closer together, although in a built app, you only spend a second or two in those gears anyways, so I don't see the "advantage" except your 3.73's are going to behave like 3:27-3:55 gears on launch with the same overdrive. I know if you get the 500 with the 26sp input shaft, it is the same as the 600 except the lower first gear.

I tried to sell my TKO500 once, people kept saying "but I want the 600" and "I heard those things blow up". Amature novice racers, lol. Higher number doesn't mean better and in racing, everything has the potential for blowing up. What got me is they then were looking for the "cobra T5" and/or a G-force T5. Good options but if your going to shell out that kind of money, might as well get something built.
If there was one thing I would like to see these trannys do would be a higher 5th gear. If I were to do it again, it would be the T-56.

 

[speedfreak94]

2000xp8 and 90mustang make some good points... The things that make a TKO-500 a 500 ft-lb model are the 10-spline Ford input, the 3.27 first gear, or a combo of the two. As far as 2000xp8 not being crazy about the gear, if you like your stock T-5 ratios, than you'll be happy with a 3.27 headset. I believe the stock T-5 is like 3.35, so you won't even notice a difference in the way the car behaves. I used the 3.27 myself, and in retrospect the 2.87 (found in the TKO-600) would have provided a more usable first for the street (however my 60ft's at the track were great)!

90mustang is right on with the 'built T-5' thing too. You give up a lot of refinement in most cases, and all the tricks in the world can't change the fact that they're baby boxes (77mm center distance vs. the TKO's 83mm).

In any case, sounds like you've got it pretty well figured out 281pony. Like I said, short of a little extra 'gruffness' my TKO was a dead nuts reliable trans, and after a little freshening up, is still serving in my buddy's SN without issue. Assuming the trans is in good health, just make sure you're set up is right, and I'm sure you won't regret it. Good luck man!

 

[SMOKEDYA]

I'll call you tomorrow my phone is charging now.But i had my 3550 fully rebuilt for $250 thats almost all new parts.He lives about 45 minutes from me and worked for a tremac authorized dealer company for 30 years!He also built my T-5 to astro specs for $950!The TKO3550 i have does shift a little rougher then my T5 did but i beat the living piss out of it and still going good!If you do get it and work done to it?ONLY use syncro mesh fluid!NO sythetic fluids!!!!!!!! peace







john

 

[281pony]

thanks for the input guys. neither me or the seller are in a huge rush. i'm going to get a bunch of small parts my car needs now taken care of. then move along to the tko in a month or so.

ill get it completely rebuilt, and i should come out a few hundred less then i would online by saving shipping atleast. i'm comparing to the used price market on them.

i dont mind putting a little more behind the shifts if it gets me home versus being stranded. i will probably drive the car before i commit 100% too just to get an idea. as long as he is ok with it.

 

[281pony]

I'll call you tomorrow my phone is charging now.But i had my 3550 fully rebuilt for $250 thats almost all new parts.He lives about 45 minutes from me and worked for a tremac authorized dealer company for 30 years!He also built my T-5 to astro specs for $950!The TKO3550 i have does shift a little rougher then my T5 did but i beat the living piss out of it and still going good!If you do get it and work done to it?ONLY use syncro mesh fluid!NO sythetic fluids!!!!!!!! peace







john

missed this post when replying.. but even better. ill talk to you tomorrow.

 

[PayUpSuka]

I'd say go to a 3550 tremec. I LOVE mine. Currently sitting being a motor making over 530 crank hp (put done 488/502 to the wheels).

Mine's is considered a "TKO" though. Has a 26 spline input and 31 spline output. I spent $1300 on mine (trans, clutch, shifter, bell housing) and couldn't be happier. Yea, it's a bit notchy when cold, but warmed up. It shifts like butter.

 

[Butteryfox]

How bad is a rebuild for a tko 500
Still shift all gears but hrinds 4th cant diwnshift into 3rd and makes alot of noise at high rpm

 

[jrichker]

I don't know how you feel about the DYI thing when it comes to gears, some people don't like the idea of working on transmissions. If the DYI transmission fix idea isn't something that you would rather leave to someone else, here are some resources:

See http://www.ttcautomotive.com/lit_oem.php to download a FREE service manual for T5 or Tremec 3550/TKO

You will need the Adobe Acrobat viewer which is also a free download – http://get.adobe.com/reader/

See http://www.hanlonmotorsports.com/ or http://www.ddperformance.com for parts

A T5 rebuild kit with syncros, bearings and other small parts costs about $160-$200. It does not include any gears or shafts.

http://www.hanlonmotorsports.com/ also has a video on how to rebuild your T5 or Tremec. It costs about $20, and is worth every penny of it.

I did a Tremec 3550 rebuild, and it wasn't that difficult. The video was an immense help, and I would recommend viewing it. At $20, it will give you an opportunity to look and decide for yourself if you think that it is something you want to try to do. It may be online on youTube

See https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tremec+3550+rebuild+

Alternate sources for the T5 rebuild video...
https://www.google.com/search?sourc...30j0i22i30.0.0.0.9710...........0.Mz886XmDDt4

T5 Shim kits – best product I have seen in a while… http://www.5speeds.com/t5/shims.html
“The Peel ‘n Place T5 World Class shim kit makes shimming T5 counter gear and main drive gears very easy.”

For Tremec 3550 and TKO's:
You will also need a magnetic base and dial indicator to measure the endplay ($40-$120). http://www.mscdirect.com P/N 06444129 cost was approximately $57 + shipping as of Feb 2013


The tricky part is that you will need some shims to adjust the endplay in the two shafts: the new bearings will change the clearance. There is no way of telling what it will be until you get to the point that it is time to measure and check the clearances. Halon has the individual shims if you can wait for them. If you can't afford the wait, the auto parts store can sell you some shim stock and you can make your own, or have a machine shop make them for you. The shim stock comes in brass (easy to cut) and steel, in varying thicknesses. That's where the dial indicator & base come in - there is no way to get the clearance right without it.

Getting the car jacked up high enough to get the trans jack in and out from under the car was somewhat challenging. Since I didn't have a helper, getting the trans out of the car and back it was one of the more difficult things about the job. I built a trans jack out of 2x6's, some angle iron and a $25 floor jack. If I hadn't done that, I would have needed a helper or to rent a commercial trans jack. At 100+ pounds the Tremec 3550 was far too heavy for me to lift by myself.

 

[2000xp8]

How bad is a rebuild for a tko 500
Still shift all gears but hrinds 4th cant diwnshift into 3rd and makes alot of noise at high rpm

I'd probably send it out to a specialist. At this point, might as well opt for some upgrades and have the peace of mind when you put it back in the car, you aren't going to tear anything up.
Call hanlon motorsports and see what they have to say.
It's possible that they make it smoother and easier to shift along letting it shift at a higher rpm.

I'd also consider calling promotion powertrain, that's were my t600 came from. He knows his stuff.

The high rpm noise would worry me.

 

[7991LXnSHO]

Please refresh my memory, I think things changed names along the line pro missed buyouts. What is the difference between a Tremec 3550, and a TKO 500? Do either use the T-5 bell housing, what driveshafts do they take (yoke and length), and what about floor clearance and shifter locations? What about clutches and flywheels?
A chart would help greatly. I figure my T-5 has an approaching expiration date, even with smooth, quick shifting and no slicks. I doubt they are designed to tolerate tire spin part way through second and third gear.