Fox Trick Flow 170’s on a 331 Stroker

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I am not debating the value of a 4 cyl to V8 swap.
I am not debating the value of a lx or gt car in any condition.
What I am saying, if someone is looking for a cobra mustang the value of that car will be more if the numbers matching engine is available. More so for a first year car like a 93 cobra or even a 94-5 cobra, maybe not today but I'm willing to bet in the future.
You may not see the value or even really care now, I have seen (in the past of course) where a limited build car sells for far less because it did not have the original engine.
It is, after all, your car, do what you want, it just makes my cobra worth more in the end :jester:

I'm sorry, I was talking about a general V8 swap. A 93' Cobra is ridiculous money as numbers matching car.

Kurt
 
I'm sorry, I was talking about a general V8 swap. A 93' Cobra is ridiculous money as numbers matching car.

Kurt
I knew what you were saying, and I agree with your statement.
thank you! :nice:
just for informational purposes lets ask @95steedamustang if the original engine should be kept with a 93 cobra.
keeping in mind I am not being critical of him sticking the numbers matching engine from a 93 cobra into another car, I am saying it's not a good idea from a collectable standpoint because 5.0 engines are plentiful but only one belongs in that cobra.
 
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I knew what you were saying, and I agree with your statement.
thank you! :nice:
just for informational purposes lets ask @95steedamustang if the original engine should be kept with a 93 cobra.
keeping in mind I am not being critical of him sticking the numbers matching engine from a 93 cobra into another car, I am saying it's not a good idea from a collectable standpoint because 5.0 engines are plentiful but only one belongs in that cobra.

Doesn't matter what parts that metal artist assembles, it's worth more than whatever Ford slapped together.

Kurt
 
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, I am saying it's not a good idea from a collectable standpoint because 5.0 engines are plentiful but only one belongs in that cobra.

True, but how would you know?

Give me 5 mins and I can lightly machine down the partial VIN on the block (it's lightly stamped) and apply my own stamps to make a new block "matching numbers". Same with the trans. 5 mins with the gauge pod cluster and I can make it read any mileage you want.

Given that, i'm not going to pay a premium for a matching numbers car vs a clean one with a good healthy 302 in it. Do i want an original car? Yes, but i'm not going to pay $40K for a low mileage premium car over $20K for one with clean, but higher mileage one with a replacement engine.

I place value on workmanship. I don't mind modifications, but they need to be high value mods, and installed correctly. Wiring is a HUGE turn-off for me if i go look at a car and see exposed butt splices in an area which may see water (not like i drive in the rain) or even worse....wirenuts.

4 to 8 swaps don't bother me if done right. That means right wiring harnesses used, right brackets and connections, right hardware, etc. Same with AOD to t5 swaps.



Isn't this thread about TFS170's on a 302 vs 331?


Myself and @95BlueStallion build are pretty similar. He did the TFS170, ported GT40 on a 347 short block. I did the same on a 302. Different cams, but curious to see how the dyno numbers compare.
 
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True, but how would you know?

Give me 5 mins and I can lightly machine down the partial VIN on the block (it's lightly stamped) and apply my own stamps to make a new block "matching numbers". Same with the trans. 5 mins with the gauge pod cluster and I can make it read any mileage you want.

Given that, i'm not going to pay a premium for a matching numbers car vs a clean one with a good healthy 302 in it. Do i want an original car? Yes, but i'm not going to pay $40K for a low mileage premium car over $20K for one with clean, but higher mileage one with a replacement engine.

I place value on workmanship. I don't mind modifications, but they need to be high value mods, and installed correctly. Wiring is a HUGE turn-off for me if i go look at a car and see exposed butt splices in an area which may see water (not like i drive in the rain) or even worse....wirenuts.

4 to 8 swaps don't bother me if done right. That means right wiring harnesses used, right brackets and connections, right hardware, etc. Same with AOD to t5 swaps.



Isn't this thread about TFS170's on a 302 vs 331?


Myself and @95BlueStallion build are pretty similar. He did the TFS170, ported GT40 on a 347 short block. I did the same on a 302. Different cams, but curious to see how the dyno numbers compare.
you are correct and I agree, I also have a distaste for short cuts, like you, specifically in wiring.
this thread started as a TFS170 head thread but the op never responded after they made the first post. It's morphed into something else.
Soooo, how bought those TFS 170's? :jester:
 
Myself and @95BlueStallion build are pretty similar. He did the TFS170, ported GT40 on a 347 short block. I did the same on a 302. Different cams, but curious to see how the dyno numbers compare.
From my set up, I feel I left about 60-70 HP on the table by using the TW170's and N41 cam on my 347. My torque number was pretty good though so I'm not too upset, especially since it's mainly a street car. I'm basing this info on the fact that I've seen properly set up 347's get about 420-430 RWHP where I'm at 360. I could be wrong on those numbers as I'm going by internet postings on the HP numbers for a 347. This is NA, no power adders.
 
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Slightly used garage queen 93 Cobras, low mileage weekend cars with all the documentation, and special venue cars, are worth a really good bit. I've said before that high mileage, well driven 93 Cobras don't command much of a price premium. It's not because they aren't desirable. It's just that that the pool of enthusiasts is rather small and there are (relative to many other collectable cars) a large number of them that have been squirreled away.

That Coyote conversion that Karthief listed above? It's worth more now than it was as a high mileage 93 Cobra :shrug:


On the heads vs displacement conversation:

Any time you're dealing with air mass and pumps, there is always a bell curve.

1577463595617.png


Changing the displacement and pulling the air through the same size ports will look something like this.

Eventually, airflow through the port will become so turbulent that more mass isn't possible without an exponential increase in force.

It is of course, a matter of diminishing returns. A point will be reached (a point will always be reached) when the bottleneck prevents you making more power.
 
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From my set up, I feel I left about 60-70 HP on the table by using the TW170's and N41 cam on my 347. My torque number was pretty good though so I'm not too upset, especially since it's mainly a street car. I'm basing this info on the fact that I've seen properly set up 347's get about 420-430 RWHP where I'm at 360. I could be wrong on those numbers as I'm going by internet postings on the HP numbers for a 347. This is NA, no power adders.

Sh*t man, I feel you there. I only hit 330/350 on my 347, and the HP peak was under 6k rpm. I have been really struggling with not buying some 11R 190 or 205s. Trying to tell myself to focus on the rest of the car and revisit the engine later.
 
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Myself and @95BlueStallion build are pretty similar. He did the TFS170, ported GT40 on a 347 short block. I did the same on a 302. Different cams, but curious to see how the dyno numbers compare.

I am really curious about this as well. I am guessing yours won’t be too horribly far off from mine. I feel like my engine is pretty restricted at the moment.
 
Slightly used garage queen 93 Cobras, low mileage weekend cars with all the documentation, and special venue cars, are worth a really good bit. I've said before that high mileage, well driven 93 Cobras don't command much of a price premium. It's not because they aren't desirable. It's just that that the pool of enthusiasts is rather small and there are (relative to many other collectable cars) a large number of them that have been squirreled away.

That Coyote conversion that Karthief listed above? It's worth more now than it was as a high mileage 93 Cobra :shrug:


On the heads vs displacement conversation:

Any time you're dealing with air mass and pumps, there is always a bell curve.

1577463595617.png


Changing the displacement and pulling the air through the same size ports will look something like this.

Eventually, airflow through the port will become so turbulent that more mass isn't possible without an exponential increase in force.

It is of course, a matter of diminishing returns. A point will be reached (a point will always be reached) when the bottleneck prevents you making more power.
I totally agree!
and yes, I'm kissing azz. See: https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/posts/9210643/
 
True, but how would you know?

Give me 5 mins and I can lightly machine down the partial VIN on the block (it's lightly stamped) and apply my own stamps to make a new block "matching numbers". Same with the trans. 5 mins with the gauge pod cluster and I can make it read any mileage you want.

Given that, i'm not going to pay a premium for a matching numbers car vs a clean one with a good healthy 302 in it. Do i want an original car? Yes, but i'm not going to pay $40K for a low mileage premium car over $20K for one with clean, but higher mileage one with a replacement engine.

I place value on workmanship. I don't mind modifications, but they need to be high value mods, and installed correctly. Wiring is a HUGE turn-off for me if i go look at a car and see exposed butt splices in an area which may see water (not like i drive in the rain) or even worse....wirenuts.

4 to 8 swaps don't bother me if done right. That means right wiring harnesses used, right brackets and connections, right hardware, etc. Same with AOD to t5 swaps.



Isn't this thread about TFS170's on a 302 vs 331?


Myself and @95BlueStallion build are pretty similar. He did the TFS170, ported GT40 on a 347 short block. I did the same on a 302. Different cams, but curious to see how the dyno numbers compare.

This conversation went off the rails a long time ago, so I wouldn't worry about it. I agree with you 100%, nobody is going to know, it's the same block, what difference does it really make? The only reason it matters is because someone believes they have a numbers matching car, and that makes them feel like they have a piece of history. It's like your wife telling you she only slept with 3 guys before you got married, when she actually slept with 37. If she doesn't have herpies, it doesn't matter. It's all in your head.

I'd be interested in the results as well, with the difference in cams put in perspective.

I think wire nuts are actually better than butt connectors.

Kurt
 
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From my set up, I feel I left about 60-70 HP on the table by using the TW170's and N41 cam on my 347. My torque number was pretty good though so I'm not too upset, especially since it's mainly a street car. I'm basing this info on the fact that I've seen properly set up 347's get about 420-430 RWHP where I'm at 360. I could be wrong on those numbers as I'm going by internet postings on the HP numbers for a 347. This is NA, no power adders.

The torque number is going to be great, because those heads maintain air velocity at low RPM. Don't get wrapped around the wire about the HP numbers you read about on the internet. The 347 stroker engines making more than 400rwhp are in the 5% at best. If someone makes more than 400 to the tire with their stroker, the entire internet knows about it. The 95% that don't make that kind of power, get crickets.

Kurt
 
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[QUOTE="revhead347, post: 9210692, member: 69153]

I think wire nuts are actually better than butt connectors.

Kurt
[/QUOTE]

They are, but I prefer solder and heat shrink for electrical connections these days
 
Key phrase is “properly done”. I have seen plenty that were not. Can’t tell you how many of those blue or red parts store butt crimps that were improperly crimped I’ve pulled apart to find corroded to hell inside.
 
When I see a wire nut in an automotive application I immediately think 'has no idea what they are doing' a wire nut has no way to be sealed from moisture ect. (Well they do but most wont do that properly)
If you dont clean older wire properly it may not take the solder joint.
The reality is if the correct tool and splice size is used a butt splice is a simple reliable connection.
 
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