Digital Tuning Tuning Options

[oct6454]

Hello everyone,

I've always wanted to learn the in-depths of tuning a motor. My recent purchase of a foxbody has brought me the opportunity get into tuning on a non-daily driven car. The other option is to bring it to a shop that specializes in mustangs and have them dyno tune it..... (93- Fox w/ a 5.0 HO)

I've done some reading on different tuning options for the foxbody, unfortunately this hasnt made my decision on what program to use any easier.

So far ive done some reading on Tweecer, and moates, as well as mega squirt.

What do the majority of nitrous foxbody owners run? I'm simply going to be running a 150* shot of nitrous. I'd prefer to go with a program that has open source support and a fairly active community so that I can have support from fellow foxbody tuners along the way.


I'm open to any input on the subject.

 

[Davedacarpainter]

@a91what should be able to help you get going in this area.

 

[skyline247]

^This. He is the resident guru on MS and will be able to get you started in the right direction. He has a thread dedicated to tuning with MS that you can browse through.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[a91what]

The only issue with using the first two options for nitrous is that you cannot tell the ECU that nitrous is about to come on. Your extra fueling will need to happen with either a fuel solenoid or wide open throttle. The issue is if you're driving on the street with a nitrous shut off and you put your foot into it it's going to add extra fuel as if you had the nitrous on.

I really do prefer the megasquirt system because I know it. I currently have a supercharged 302 runs very well they get decent gas mileage and plenty of power I could daily drive it if I wanted to. The megasquirt itself has nitrous control in its tuning algorithm you simply give it an input to say hey if the nitrous is active and when you go wide open throttle it adjusts to fuel as necessary. Not to mention all the other options you get with programming your own shift lights and control anything you can think of that you can trigger with a relay you can do with the megasquirt. At first the learning curve can be a bit steep there's a lot to take in but once you have it figured out most things become very simple if you check out the megasquirt help thread I have videos on how to set up the tuning software how to use the data logging software if you simply read through the thread take a look download the free software from the do-it-yourself auto tune website you can open the tune files and data logs that we've all posted in the thread and view them and make changes and feel through the tuning software before you make a decision

 

[Sparky714]

^^^^ He knows his stuff when it comes to MS. I've got mine built and tested and ready to go into the car, just deciding on a few wiring options. It's been a busy summer so I haven't got to it yet. Check out his MS thread

 

[jrichker]

The only issue with using the first two options for nitrous is that you cannot tell the ECU that nitrous is about to come on. Your extra fueling will need to happen with either a fuel solenoid or wide open throttle. The issue is if you're driving on the street with a nitrous shut off and you put your foot into it it's going to add extra fuel as if you had the nitrous on.

I really do prefer the megasquirt system because I know it. I currently have a supercharged 302 runs very well they get decent gas mileage and plenty of power I could daily drive it if I wanted to. The megasquirt itself has nitrous control in its tuning algorithm you simply give it an input to say hey if the nitrous is active and when you go wide open throttle it adjusts to fuel as necessary. Not to mention all the other options you get with programming your own shift lights and control anything you can think of that you can trigger with a relay you can do with the megasquirt. At first the learning curve can be a bit steep there's a lot to take in but once you have it figured out most things become very simple if you check out the megasquirt help thread I have videos on how to set up the tuning software how to use the data logging software if you simply read through the thread take a look download the free software from the do-it-yourself auto tune website you can open the tune files and data logs that we've all posted in the thread and view them and make changes and feel through the tuning software before you make a decision

Not so hard to do with a wet nitrous system. An analog comparator (LM324) senses WOT by reading the TPS signal. When it exceeds 3.5 volts, it trips and the output goes high. Use a NAND gate (7400) with a voltage clamp limiter on the input from the switch that arms the nitrous. When both inputs go high, the output goes low and sinks the current for a pilot relay. the pilot relay in turn opens the fuel and nitrous main relay that opens the solenoid valves. The output of this circuit can also be used to set the timing retard in something like a MSD (UGH!) ignition box. If you are really clever, use a NTE331 TO-220 power transistor to drive the solenoid valves and eliminate the relays altogether. You'll need a 3 1N4001 diodes to clamp the solenoid coil spikes and the input from the nitrous arming switch.

 

[a91what]

Not so hard to do with a wet nitrous system. An analog comparator (LM324) senses WOT by reading the TPS signal. When it exceeds 3.5 volts, it trips and the output goes high. Use a NAND gate (7400) with a voltage clamp limiter on the input from the switch that arms the nitrous. When both inputs go high, the output goes low and sinks the current for a pilot relay. the pilot relay in turn opens the fuel and nitrous main relay that opens the solenoid valves. The output of this circuit can also be used to set the timing retard in something like a MSD (UGH!) ignition box. If you are really clever, use a NTE331 TO-220 power transistor to drive the solenoid valves and eliminate the relays altogether. You'll need a 3 1N4001 diodes to clamp the solenoid coil spikes and the input from the nitrous arming switch.

You are correct. But that option does not require any tuning corrections to be made. Outside of pill selection and timing retard.
It has worked for a long long time and is the method we use for carb'd cars.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

I'm running a moates quarterhorse and love it. Infinite tuning capabilities at a price that won't break the bank. A bit of a learning curve though.

 

[oct6454]

To be more clear regarding my tuning intentions.

The car will simply run a wet nitrous setup. From all I've read we will simply need to retard the timing. With that said I still think it would be good to be able to log and optimize the setup as I do enjoy tinkering some times.

 

[Stinger]

If you're interested in Megasquirt, take a look at the PiMPxs from Stinger Performance. It's MS3 based, sequential fuel, offers 2 stages of progressive or on/off nitrous control (as well as traction control, launch control, on-board datalogging without a laptop, support for Android based phones/tablets, etc.) and is plug and play into Fox Mustangs.

 

[oct6454]

If I'm simply looking to retard the timing. Is going with a complete tuning solution like MS or Quarterhorse overkill? I thought that a complete tuning solution like those listed above would be the method of choice for making timing adjustments. Is there some other method for adjusting the timing that I am not aware of?

 

[Stinger]

Your first sentence said "I've always wanted to learn the in-depths of tuning a motor. My recent purchase of a foxbody has brought me the opportunity get into tuning on a non-daily driven car." That sounded to me like you only need to retard timing for now but were looking to learn how to tune as well. If this isn't the case and all you want to do is retard timing, just turn the distributor to retard the timing (or use one of the other methods mentioned in this thread that doesn't involve tuning it with the ECU).

If you do want to learn to tune a motor then having a way to do so (QH, MS, etc.) is a good start.

 

[oct6454]

Stinger,

You hit it perfectly. I am looking to learn to tune, but am also looking for a simple way to retard the timing. I am coming from the EJ series motors (Subaru) and have no experience with distributors. I knew that older V8's simply required you turn the distributor, but I wasnt sure if these "newer" v8's worked the same way.

Sounds like I'll retard the timing via the distributor, and most likely get MS to start into the tuning world.

 

[a91what]

Check out this thread.
http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/steves-megasquirt-tunerstudio-help-thread.888730/
You can join the MS community on this forum post any ms related questions and I have videos on how the software works. there are links to the FREE tunerstudio software download so you can look it over and learn the interface. many of us have tunes posted there that you can download and view with the software [even make changes and play with all the settings]... I suggest this before you pull the trigger on any large purchase.