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Discussion in '1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk-' started by Eric Armstrong, Dec 2, 2013.
For their 3/4 race cam and 750 double pumper? *Manly grunt*
@rbohm I'm not looking to start some sort of war here or anything. I simply disagree and feel that your advice is truly unfounded. Do you have a 2,000$ motor under the hood of your car that you can provide evidence of making 550hp? I just like the majority of the members here have a budget, and work inside that budget so I understand that there is money to be saved and everything doesn't have to be new. I for one have a host of used parts in my TTop car and has stretched my budget considerably. The advice I give here is from my real world experience and from past and current results. I just feel that your advice in this particular thread is unfounded and misleading, That's all.
find me a roller tappet cam that will work for a 200 or 250 inline ford six. also there are racing classes that dont allow roller lifters. and like i said, if you are building on a budget, a flat tapper cam is a good way to save money and still make good power. a roller cam and lifters runs about $500, where as a good flat tappet cam with lifters runs less than $200.
i have built budget engines for years, including budget race engines. building an engine doesnt mean throwing tons of money at it and hoping for the best. its a matter of building smart. anyone can drop $5000 and make lots of power, not everyone can make the same power with about 1/2 the money.
Yea but you're dealing with lazy lobes and tedious break in procedures and even then a lot of guys will still end up botching a flat tappet cam install. Now lube companies are coming up with "break in oils" and "flat tappet oils" and its really just more hassle than it's worth, IMO. You save a couple hundred bucks, but you jump through more hoops and in the end an equivalent roller cam engine is going to do things better.
Class racing is another argument. That is what it is, I guess. Same goes for building old or obscure engines that roller cams aren't available for.
And if you're going to argue budget, consider that you can (usually) reuse roller lifters. So now you're at ~$100 difference in the two setups. That's a tank of gas and a trip to the movies. If that breaks anybody's engine budget, they shouldn't be building an engine.
Roller cam is like $250, lifters are $114. It's not logical to convert a roller block to a flat tappet.
I'm not sure if you are accusing me of throwing money at my projects or just calling me plain stupid? Either way I'm ok with it. Still looking for examples, combos, time slips, etc. All of the information I post here is very open and honest. A spade is a spade and ask around I'm the first to admit to my mistakes, and like most other people I have made them and a lot of my advice stems from the things that I have learned along the years, good or bad. This last year in stepping up our racing program we had a tough and expensive learning curve. If you found a budget race combo that works would you mind sharing the specifics?
i am not accusing you of anything, i just stated that one can throw money at a combination and still not make the power that was suggested it should make. some people can tune combinations, others cant, or wont. as for the race engines, that was nearly 30 years ago, so i dont remember specifics, heck these days i have a time trying to remember things i did a week ago.
as with any engine build, there are compromises that have to be made. if you want the latest and greatest, then toss $5000 at your engine, and build it. if you are on a tighter budget, then you dont get the roller cams, and you dont get the fuel injection, and you buy a lot of used parts that you refurbish. is the combination i suggested the best one available? nope, but then it should do what i suggested it will with some tuning on the part of the builder, for about half what the best would be.
cam lube has always been around at least since the 50s, perhaps earlier, to prevent wiping a lobe on start up. unfortunately too many people figure that these days they dont need it, and then they learn an expensive lesson. break in oils, and additives are still viable alternatives for the budget guys, they just have to remember to use them. its no big deal though.
oh, and the part about reusing roller lifters, nice, but if you are starting with a clean engine build, meaning you have to buy the parts before you can use them, or reuse them, then there is no savings reusing the roller lifters if you dont have them is there? and reusing roller lifters is fine, as long as the trunnions are in good shape. let one of those freeze up and you will wipe a lobe in short order, probably before you can shut the engine down when it freezes, and it has happened to many people.
I think it's safe to say that if you are building a pushrod engine, you aren't dealing with the latest and greatest.