Turbo/blower Guys....what Rings Do You Use?

CarMichael Angelo

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See,...little by little. I'm justifying the tear down.
The head gasket is coming. Now gasket failure is not a concern, stopping the blow by gets attention.

All things in a perfect world, I'd want to target 16-18 psi. Whether or not I'll actually do that remains to be seen. I cannot remember what rings are currently in the engine, but I do know that they are low tension.
I'm sure that when I built this engine, I looked at the ring mfgs gap recommendation based on expected boost levels, and I gapped them accordingly. ( which is probably too much as well)
The bottom line, and the reason that I'll pull this engine apart next month is that this is a street car. It'll always be a street car. As much as I btch about 900 hp street cars, 16-18 psi in my car will be just as over the top relatively speaking.
If I was smart, I'd set a limit. I should say that I definitely will not exceed 15 pounds, and stick there.

So,..that brings me to the question: Is there anybody out here using a specific ring? Anybody using a gap less set? What about Hell fire rings? Or,...more my speed..is there anybody just using a regular old set of $50.00 plasma moly rings?
 
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CarMichael Angelo

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If it were me, I'd wait to ask that question of the experts Mike. Yours is a different kind of animal when it comes to internal combustion engines, and even though everybody else here has one too ( an I.c.e.) it might be best that you solicit than opinion from the mountain.
 
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CarMichael Angelo

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Hey thanks Mike, I was planning on doing that, but just wanted to see what some of the other guys that use air, fuel, compression, and spark to move pistons up and down in their respective chunks of cast iron to get a populist opinion first.

I just knew I shoulda asked a muffler question instead...
 
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HotFox

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Mike,
Most of the NA stuff we use tool steal. Basically you want a material that will be harder then the cylinder material. I would call Total Seal. I would run a conventional top and a gapless second if you go that route. I'm a big believer in thin rings. Most custom I do is .042 top, .042 second and 3/16" oil. The nice thing about total seal is if your using a conventional 1/16" ring they make a spacer to reduce it to a thinner ring if you so choose that route.
Here is my I6 tractor engine that I am building with LSX ring set, 3.75" bore. These are custom pistons with my combustion chamber design. Reducing ring drag by over 60% with a thinner rings and will be able to run multi weight oil.
You may want to consider joining speedtalk forum for some great engine technical expertise and support.
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20171130_134441.jpg
20171130_140822.jpg
 
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HotFox

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Just as a comparison The tractor ring set was .125 top, .125 second and 1/4" oil ring. The LSX ring set .047 top, .047 second, and .118 oil ring. Thats a hell of a lot of reduction in ring drag which translates to HP. This is a pretty much a stock rebuild BTW.
 

CarMichael Angelo

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Mike,
Most of the NA stuff we use tool steal. Basically you want a material that will be harder then the cylinder material. I would call Total Seal. I would run a conventional top and a gapless second if you go that route. I'm a big believer in thin rings. Most custom I do is .042 top, .042 second and 3/16" oil. The nice thing about total seal is if your using a conventional 1/16" ring they make a spacer to reduce it to a thinner ring if you so choose that route.
Here is my I6 tractor engine that I am building with LSX ring set, 3.75" bore. These are custom pistons with my combustion chamber design. Reducing ring drag by over 60% with a thinner rings and will be able to run multi weight oil.
You may want to consider joining speedtalk forum for some great engine technical expertise and support.
20171130_141450.jpg
20171130_134441.jpg
20171130_140822.jpg
Thanks for that. I believe that my rings are very thin pieces based in some thickness measured in metrics. I'm seriously considering a gap less set this next time around. I'll also look into that forum for advice. Thanks.
 

a91what

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Mike when I built my engine last time I used a stock rebuild ring set nothing fancy. I don't really know much when it comes to this arena.
 

Davedacarpainter

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Maybe this is something I should pay attention to?

With the mods i plan for my m90 I should be pushing around 18psi.

I’ll start reading on this since I really don’t have much to do for the next month or so.
 

FastDriver

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I don't know. I always listen to the pros. On CP's recommendation, it was .006" per inch of diameter on the top ring (4.030" * .006 = (.02418 rounded up to .025). And, add .002 for the 2nd ring for a .027" gap. Might be the old way of doing things. Not sure. Good luck with your build.
 

CarMichael Angelo

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Maybe this is something I should pay attention to?

With the mods i plan for my m90 I should be pushing around 18psi.

I’ll start reading on this since I really don’t have much to do for the next month or so.
Stay tuned here too Dave...I'm talking to Racetec today.
 
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TOOLOW91

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Stay tuned here too Dave...I'm talking to Racetec today.
Racetec did my pistons . As far as rings I have no idea because my engine builder did this and with his lack luster info I got from him I didn't get the part number of the ring pack he used .
 

CarMichael Angelo

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The conversation with Racetec was to be expected. He didn't like the fact that 3 cylinders are almost 20% leakage ( one is actually over that).
"The solutions begins the moment those pistons are out of the engine" he says...
*sigh*
He guesses that all of the instances of exposure to detonation have hammered the moly coating off the face of the top ring, and its the top ring that gives you your cylinder seal. the fact that have 3 acceptable cylinders just means that they didn't get beat as hard.

The " low tension" part of the ring pkg applies only to the oil rings, and are not to blame for the low cylinders.

So, nothing to do but just do it. Better that I do it in Jan-Feb than in the middle of the season.

The tune is right, I have the means to control detonation now, all that's left to do when its back together is to see how much power it makes, and see how fast it is.
 

CarMichael Angelo

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So this thread was totally worth making. At least we got to see you talk to yourself first hand, instead of having to assume you sit around talking to yourself all the time.
You think anybody actually noticed that do ya? I didn't see you offering any advice. You'd think that considering most cars in Iowa only last 3-5 years before they rust away, you would be an expert at rebuilding junk.

I still only got one actual type of ring suggested, and even then it was for a tractor. ( meh,...not much difference between a tractor and the monsters engine anyway..)
Turns out that the rings in my engine are a file fit gapped plasma moly set 1.5mm/1.5mm/3mm.
Aka..1/16"/1/16"/1/8"
 

hoopty5.0

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i used a stock set. But who knows how long it would have lasted? I did take the time to research ring gaps and filed them accordingly
 

95BlueStallion

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You think anybody actually noticed that do ya? I didn't see you offering any advice. You'd think that considering most cars in Iowa only last 3-5 years before they rust away, you would be an expert at rebuilding junk.

I still only got one actual type of ring suggested, and even then it was for a tractor. ( meh,...not much difference between a tractor and the monsters engine anyway..)
Turns out that the rings in my engine are a file fit gapped plasma moly set 1.5mm/1.5mm/3mm.
Aka..1/16"/1/16"/1/8"
I can certainly go home and look to see what rings are in my engine, but cosidering you are asking for Turbo/Boost applications, all I can do there is make fun of you for being old and senile.
 
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hoopty5.0

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Well Mike,

Im in the same boat right now, so I asked on one of the 9.5 deck pages. So far, it's a vote a piece for Hellfire and Stock. No reasons given, even though I asked...
 

CarMichael Angelo

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Well Mike,

Im in the same boat right now, so I asked on one of the 9.5 deck pages. So far, it's a vote a piece for Hellfire and Stock. No reasons given, even though I asked...
I asked about hell fire here too...seems like it's more of a race set, intended to be changed out more frequently.
( something about them being "softer", and more adaptive, less brittle)
I'm waiting to see what the rings look like in the three low cylinders..and see if they show signs of detonation.
They were like 200.00 plus IIRC.
I asked the piston guy if I could get away with a regular set of moly rings,.and he said maybe..waiting on what I find.
My problem is my bore size. 3.700 is unpopular ( go figure) Subaru WRX Boxer engines have a 3.700 bore I think.
And this is about all I get to choose from:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tsr-cr0394/overview/