Turbocharger/Supercharger Help

[Preston951]

Alright, to start this off, I'm sure there have been millions of threads on this before. I've read up on a lot of them, but there is so much information that I'm basically overwhelmed .

So anyways, I recently got a 2008 Mustang GT (auto)! I absolutely love it, its so badass! But I started looking into some aftermarket stuff, and came across this forum. Currently my stang is totally stock, but I plan on making some big improvements when the time and money for it is available. I figure, why not learn up now and have something to work for in the future?


I've been, like I said before, totally overwhelmed by all the crazy car terms, parts, and measures that people talk about here. About 2 months ago, I knew basically nothing about cars, but after studying my ass off and going to a friend's garage and ripping apart an '82 Stang GT, I learned quite a bit. However, there still is a great deal for me to learn .



So, here's the deal. I don't plan on taking my car to a drag strip; basically I want my mods to be for street. On top of this, I don't want horrible fuel economy (meaning 5+ less than stock MPG). I do want a significant increase in acceleration, but not so much for top speeds. The top premium fuel that the area (or state, possibly) I live in almost always carries 91 Octane fuel tops (no 93+). I drive an automatic. I would prefer a somewhat easy/average difficulty install (if it is possible I could do it myself). I don't want to get my oil changed all the time. I also don't have an enormous amount of money to spend on this.


Wow. That was quite a lot there. Anyways, I've been looking into both superchargers and turbochargers. From what I've seen:
Superchargers usually lower fuel economy, cost 4k to 8k, have variable performance at lower RPMs, and some are super noisy.
Turbochargers typically increase fuel economy, cost 4k to 6k, heat up more, and need more maintenance.

After reading what I just typed (haha), I think that I'm leaning more on the side of getting a supercharger.


Any suggestions on what products I should consider/look into would be great! I've already looked at a ton, but for my current "deal" (see above ), I'm not sure if I'm looking at the right stuff. I would also love advice on what to do after I install it, or what I can do before it!


Thanks a ton for reading this! You're helping me out a ton!

 

[klaw]

Both superchargers and turbochargers shove more air into your engine under boost and therefore you will need to shove more gas in to keep your air/fuel ratio in line. Thus, under boost, both will decrease gas mileage. Turbochargers are usually more efficient because they use exhaust gas energy that would otherwise be wasted. Superchargers generally make power quicker (ie lower in the RPM band) because turbos need a bit of time to spool up as the exhaust gas flow increases. Turbo lag can be minimized by appropriate sizing for your application.

You should consider staying naturally aspirated for a while and just starting off with rearend gears (you didn't mention what your stock ratio is) - likely 4.10's, a cold air induction kit, and an aftermarket tune (Bama or Brenspeed).

Forced induction in my opinion is not a good idea if you're on a limited budget for mods and gas. You will find that the cost of the s/c or t/c is only the beginning. You'll need gauges, suspension mods, brake mods, and depending on boost level, drive line and engine internal mods.

With FI there can be a bit of a tendency to follow the power around the car to find the next weakest link. Once stable, you're just one smaller pulley away from starting the process all over again.

Before starting down that road, ask yourself "how much is enough?".

 

[Preston951]

Say I went with a 2.6L Kenne Bell Supercharger kit on my Mustang. What other mods would I need to do?


Say I went with a Helion/Turbonetic Turbocharger kit on my Mustang. What other mods would I need to do?

 

[klaw]

Either system you should upgrade the fuel delivery - either dual or triple intank pumps rather than boost-a-pump. You should also consider upgrading the fuel rails.

I'm no expert on the automatic. I've heard stories of them working well with big horsepower in drag race situations but I personally know of a guy who Procharged his '07 auto and blew up his auto trans on the first day. I had a spare engine and tranny that I bought out of a wreck and I sold him the tranny.

You should install extra gauges to keep track of the extra data - I did fuel pressure, vacuum/boost, and wideband AFR. You might also consider I/C temp, intake air temp, and oil pressure.

Traction will be a problem so stickier tires should be considered. You'll want to upgrade your engine tune and tranny parameters so you'll need a programmer - SCT or Diablosport depending on whether or not you intend on getting a custom dyno tune. Buy the programmer that your dyno tuner works with.

Brakes on the stock platform are marginal to begin with and inadequate for aggressive driving with FI. You should also look at upgraded suspension components for spirited driving. If you lower the car you may need an adjustable panhard bar to shift the rearend back into line. A one-piece drive shaft is also a worthwhile mod.

Anything over about 10psi boost and you should start to look at forged engine internals. The stock engine has a relatively high compression ratio which can lead to detonation issues on pump gas at higher boost levels. If you're going to do the bottom end, you might as well look at the heads. CNC ported heads will flow much better and upgraded valve materials will handle boost better. Upgraded springs and cams add sex-appeal to the idle and allow for higher rev limits. If you're going to have the engine out for a build, it's probably efficient to install long tube headers and a free-flowing exhaust system. All the better to move the air through. If your choice is turbo, exhaust piping changes are required anyway.

If you expect to be launching hard, you should look at beefing up your rearend - GT500 Trac Loc and a differential girdle. At higher boost level beefier axles might be a consideration.

As you can see, there are any number of changes that you can make. Some of these are useful for NA and I would recommend starting there. Once you find the car boring in NA trim, plan the addition of FI carefully - try to decide in advance when enough is enough.

 

[Preston951]

klaw, thanks so much for all this information! It sounds like you know your stuff


And... It sounds like this is going to be a BIG project if I end up going that route.


I've also looked in to taking another route - a less expensive, less expensive, less performance gain route, that may satisfy my needs.

That would be:
CAI (C&L or JLT???)
Mid-Pipe (Suggestions? Needs to be street-legal)
Under-drive pulleys (Thinking Steeda)
Gears (Thinking 4.10 because its an auto?)
Aluminum Driveshaft (??? Is this necessary?)
Lower Control Arms (Sugg.)
Long-tube headers (Sugg.)
Tuner (SCT, I think)


Anything else recommended if I went this route?

Thanks a ton!

 

[klaw]

klaw, thanks so much for all this information! It sounds like you know your stuff

You're welcome - There are lots of great guys and gals around here that helped me alot along the way!

I've also looked in to taking another route - a less expensive, less expensive, less performance gain route, that may satisfy my needs.

That would be:
CAI (C&L or JLT???)
Mid-Pipe (Suggestions? Needs to be street-legal)
Under-drive pulleys (Thinking Steeda)
Gears (Thinking 4.10 because its an auto?)
Aluminum Driveshaft (??? Is this necessary?)
Lower Control Arms (Sugg.)
Long-tube headers (Sugg.)
Tuner (SCT, I think)

Your list looks like a great start. I wouldn't bother with the long tube headers for now - the stock manifolds flow pretty good. If you're ever planning on getting a dyno tune, find out what programmer they recommend/use. With the changes you've listed, you'll notice a big gain in the seat dyno! Good luck - let us know how it works out.

 

[Five Oh Brian]

Preston951, how fast do you want your car to be? Please don't think in terms of horsepower, just stats (i.e. 0-60, 0-100, 1/8 mile, 1/4 mile, etc.).

I ask as there are many awesome superchargers and turbo kits you can buy that will eventually lead you to upgrading other aspects of the car, as Klaw pointed out. Many of those blowers & turbos are just plain overkill for the average enthusiast, though, and cost $5K to $7K just for parts, with installation and tuning pushing the total expense to $6K to $9K for many people. As cool as it would be to have a 10 or 11-second 1/4 miler, how many people really need to go that fast to be happy?

If you have more modest goals (i.e. 12-second 1/4 mile, 0-100 in less than 10 seconds, etc.), then there are more basic superchargers out there that will get to those goals without necessitating other (often costly) upgrades.

In my case, I just wanted to run low 12's @ 110+ in the 1/4 mile and hit 100 mph in less than 10 seconds. I was able to do this very easily with a modest, basic Vortech V2 non-intercooled supercharger. Car runs consistent 12.30's @ 111 mph in the 1/4 mile. 0-100 mph sprints only take 9.9 seconds. Total cost of this kit was very affordable ($3700 for the complete blower, fuel pumps, injectors, tuner, brackets, etc.). I didn't want to do the install myself, so I paid $899 to have it professionally installed. I also paid $450 for a couple different days of dyno tuning (one day for the supercharger, another day for the trans/converter function).

So, I guess it would be easier for any of us to point you in the right direction if we knew what kind of results would make you happy.

 

[Preston951]

Five Oh Brian~


Thanks for the reply . I definitely am not looking for an enormous boost in car performance, and I will likely not be racing my car often, which has led me to think if super/turbocharging my car would be worth it. I would like my car to be faster, at least 13 quarter.

Sure... It would be so sweet to be able to have that kind of power, but I've learned that in most cases super/turbocharging a car brings a lot of extra time and money into the picture.

If such a supercharging kit exists that you don't have to spend loads of thousands of dollars in additional parts, please point the way .

So, because of this, I've looked into the alternate path of not super/turbocharging my car, but rather install performance level aftermarket components of the car. This should technically boost my horsepower and torque, and maybe give me the performance gain I would like, at a significantly lower price compared to most turbo/supercharging "operations".


I think that making these small modifications (here and there) now will allow me to later upgrade into a super/turbocharging kit and be less of a jump from stock to a super/turbocharged vehicle.


I very well may have the wrong idea, but it makes sense to me. Guide me if I'm wrong


Here are the parts I would like to install, if you have any advice on companies to look into or other parts I should install, please let me know!

CAI (C&L street or JLT???)
Mid-Pipe with cats (Suggestions? Needs to be street-legal)
Under-drive pulleys (Thinking Steeda)
Gears (Thinking 4.10 because its an auto?)
Aluminum Driveshaft (Thinking Dynotech)
Lower Control Arms (Thinking Steeda)
Tuner (SCT X3???)
Axel-backs (Thinking Stainless Boom-tubes)
Lower Springs (Thinking Ultralite Steeda)


If any of those are garbage, please let me know! My budget is somewhat limited (I max out at around 8k, but would rather not spend that much), but the lower the price the sooner it will be done. If anyone has suggestions on these parts or on possible super/turbocharger options, please share your knowledge !


Thanks,
Preston

 

[Five Oh Brian]

If such a supercharging kit exists that you don't have to spend loads of thousands of dollars in additional parts, please point the way.

The blower I bought did not require any other modifications. I do suggest, however, a good set of colder heat range, copper spark plugs with any forced induction. I ended up doing this ($140 for a set of FRPP 3V0 spark plugs) and the car runs much better (I was getting some spark blowout and misfire from the cruddy factory platinum plugs).

My engine, exhaust, and suspension are 100% factory original. No mods required with the basic blower I bought. The 4.10 gears and stall converter were goodies I added before the blower when I still thought I could not afford a blower.

Sounds like you have modest goals. Most S197 GT's run 13's stock in the 1/4 mile (except at higher elevations), so a mild blower setup will easily do more than you're wanting. Even the tamest supercharger kits will get an otherwise stock GT into the high 12's while keeping 50-state legal emmissions and warranty.

 

[Five Oh Brian]

Here are the parts I would like to install...

CAI (C&L street or JLT???)
Mid-Pipe with cats (Suggestions? Needs to be street-legal)
Under-drive pulleys (Thinking Steeda)
Gears (Thinking 4.10 because its an auto?)
Aluminum Driveshaft (Thinking Dynotech)
Lower Control Arms (Thinking Steeda)
Tuner (SCT X3???)
Axel-backs (Thinking Stainless Boom-tubes)
Lower Springs (Thinking Ultralite Steeda)

Those are all good items to install. However, I did some really quick math to add up parts & labor to install, and you're looking to spend about $4,500 to $5,000 to do all the things on the list above. You could buy a basic blower kit for that and have money for installation, as well. Plus, the basic blower would end up being noticably faster than all the above mods combined.

Of course, some of the items on your list would be cool to have in addition to the blower, so you just have to decide what order to mod your car. Small stuff first, or big stuff first.

 

[mustangmax]

Preston, I think your best bet is to go with a few of the easier bolt ons that will increase your horsepower, airflow and improve the sound of your new pony. Research a CAI and exhaust components and get those installed first. You could take your car out to Firebird Raceway and do a few runs in the 1/4 to see where the car is baselining. Add the intake and exhaust upgrades and take it back for a few more runs and see how close you are to being satisfied. If you want to just jump ahead and blow some dough on a larger power adder get a supercharger kit from Vortech, Paxton, or ATI Procharger. You can add other bolt ons later...

 

[grngt50]

just throwing out another option..........

what about nitrous You can pick up a decent used kit for $400-500 bucks. Only draw back is power isn't always there like a blower. Good luck bro

-James

 

[slayr281]

While superchargers are expensive, it is rather hard to beat the bang/buck. Really. It's not too expensive to install either as they pretty much bolt on and just require a couple pipe relocations.

However, going with that other parts list will do more than just up your power, and make the car better overall. Pretty much like upgrading a gaming computer, you could slam a big video card in, or upgrade to a faster processor, hard drive, memory, better keyboard, mouse, and monitor. They'll run you about the same, but maybe you'll enjoy the times you're not hardcore gaming even more.

I like your list, and while we could poke at who to get them from, my only real recommendation is to maybe ditch the under drive pullies. I stock and sell them, but I think the 2-4 gain in hp isn't worth the $200ish invested on them, and you'll never experience any additional seat of the pants feel to them. Additionally, if you ever go supercharger later, you'll have to put your stock pullies back on.

 

[bigcat]

i disagree on the SOTP of the underdrive pulleys. i noticed the difference from them.

 

[slayr281]

i disagree on the SOTP of the underdrive pulleys. i noticed the difference from them.

Well, maybe you have an exceptionally well calibrated set of pants to tell the difference between 300 and 303hp.

 

[bigcat]

i noticed the engine revs much easier. may have only been a few ponies, but if the engine can rev faster, that equals more fun!

 

[slayr281]

i noticed the engine revs much easier. may have only been a few ponies, but if the engine can rev faster, that equals more fun!

Can't disagree with you there, and I felt the same about the aluminum driveshaft. Transfers power to the rear a little bit better, and the acceleration feels quicker and smoother throughout.

 

[Stangninjak]

Turbo's for our cars have come a long way. I have owned, a ATI supercharged 97, with full exhaust, (LT's, 3inch pipe) I also had a cobra with a upgraded wipple.

Superchargers are fun, but now on my 08 I am looking to go turbo. The Helion kit, and the Turbonectic kit are very well done, offers great power, and keep you car as stock as any supercharger kit. Also turbo's are not going to wear on your crank.

I plan on dropping a nice kit in my car come march, and I think its really going to be fun.

 

[cjs302]

The Kenne Bell 2.6 is an awesome choice kit comes complete. I prefer to see the GT500 fuel upgrade done due to the FP duty cycle will be 90+ %.
Every car that I have seen has made 445-470 HP & 425-455 tq on 8-9 psi.

As for turbo say rule applies for fuel system. STS turbo , Hellion, HP Turbo all great choices. and make good power.

You will be happy with whatever choose. I really depends on your driving style and plans with the car