weight question

[3-0-II]

this is not going to make very much sense right away, so if you find yourself wondering what the heck I'm rambling on about, its ok. I'm weird.

Anyhow, one of my friends and i are working on a theoretical "just for ****s and giggles" project and I need to know about how much a II would weigh with a full interior, doors and glass (no hatch) and essentially nothing else. no engine, no trans, no suspension, wheels, gas tank, etc. just the body (sans hatch), glass and interior.

You're probably utterly confused as to why anyone would ever need those bits of data. Well, to start off, I'm a sc-ifi nut. I got bored in calculus II today, and decided to start daydreaming about a future where we all have hovercars, and what would become of my beloved II. I would either need to scrap it (yeah right!) or update it. Think of it as restomodding to a ridiculous extent

I started doing some rough conceptual drawings and I'm going to try and do some rough CADing of what it would look like. Again, this is purely for my own enjoyment, and I have no plans of actually making my II into a hovercar... for now So for anyone that wants to tell me "it cant be done!" thanks, but i don't care. I want to see what it would be like IF it were possible.

So if anyone could tell me how much a II as described above would weight, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks everyone! And I may be back asking more and more ridiculous questions later on.
:SNSign:

 

[MUSTANG J]

My guess 1500 LBS! I Know that when I had the unibody of the II powder blasted my friend and I pickied it up and carried it.

 

[78CobraII]

I had been wondering about the "no drivetrain" weight for another reason.

Would it be feasible to convert a II into an electric car and have it be reasonably efficent and practical? In other words, could we make one with usable passenger space (in a II? ), reasonable acceleration, reasonable handling, and reasonable range?

I would define reasonable acceleration and handling as good enough to avoid being a traffic hazzard!

And reasonable range as far enough to go to work or a local car show and back home for a recharge, say maybe 80 miles.

Assuming you start with a V8/auto/AC/PS hatchback, you could be as high as 3200 lbs.

Subtract 450 lbs for the engine, 75 lbs for the transmission, 50 lbs for the cooling system, 50 lbs for the fuel system, 25 lbs for the AC compressor, save 20 lbs converting to a short aluminum driveshaft, and save another 25 lbs converting to non-assisted brakes and steering gets you down to about 2545 lbs.

I think that you still need to get some weight out of the car...maybe fiberglass hood, hatch, fenders, and bumpers would save you another 200 lbs. Lexan windows might save another 50 lbs. Removing all the insulation and noise reduction maybe another 50 lbs. So maybe 2150 lbs total?

I've seen weights for MII racecars (with drivetrains!) around that weight, so what am I missing or under-estimating?

The good thing with building an electric car is that the motor and controller are less than 200 lbs together. So the question is, can you get enough batteries in the newly open space (engine compartment and gas tank area) to provide a usable range? I think that you can.

So you might use your CAD program to see how many Optima Deep Cycle (Blue Top) batteries you can fit in the bottom of the engine compartment, front of the transmission tunnel, and the gas tank area. The eletric motor would go towards the rear of the transmission tunnel and the controller in the top of the engine compartment.

If you wanted to make it a 2-seater, I guess you could use the rear seat area also. You might actually end up with decent handling as the batteries could be mounted fairly low.

Optima specs:
Volts: 12 V
Battery Terminals: Top
Battery Type: AGM
Cranking Amps at 0 Degrees F: 750 amps
Cranking Amps at 32 Degrees F: 870 amps
Reserve Capacity: 120 minutes
Length (in): 10.000 in.
Width (in): 6.875 in.
Height (in): 7.812 in.
Weight: 44 lbs.
Notes: BCI Group 34

 

[3-0-II]

So If I read this correctly, the 2150lb figure would still have wheels and a suspension correct? More stuff my imagination doesn't need (this time)

how much could i drop that figure by if i remove all suspension components, any and all drivetrain pieces left and the wheels, etc. basically, the body and frame, with interior. I like the idea of fiberglass fenders and hood (remember, no hatch) and lexan windows. The lighter this thing is the smaller and less dangerous my jet engines can be

As for that electric car bit, I have thought about that too. I'm trying to get a summer internship at Tesla Motors, and maybe I can learn a thing or two about adapting electric drivetrain to an existing car while I'm there. Wouldn't that be sweet? An electric II that can keep up with a Tesla Roadster Those things weigh about 2700lbs, so if i literally just took the parts from there, and put them into a II, I would have a faster car, theoretically. hmmm

anyhow, i just finished downloading and installing the CAD software today, and I'm going home for the weekend (SUPERBOWL!!) So I'll get plenty more reference pics of my car so I can try and start CADing it. I've never done anything this complex before, and I have resounding feeling its going to look atrocious. oh well, practice right?

I'll keep the base car saved seperately from the jetcar project, so maybe when I know more about making electric cars, I can see if I can feasibly do it. I'll miss that V8 rumble though..

Thanks for the help guys!

 

[78CobraII]

Without the front suspension, tires and wheels, rear axle and springs, you are getting pretty close to that 1500 lb number.

Of course the 'hover car' has been done before...with a DeLorean!

You just need a flux capacitor...

I was wondering how the electric motor was mounted on the electric Ranger pickups that our local power company was running a few years ago so I looked it up. The manufacturer ditched the rear axle all together and mounted a new independent rear suspension in a cradle with a motor driving both back wheels through half-shafts. It may be more effificent, but its an expensive solution!

 

[MUSTANG J]

Sorry my 1500lbs was based on no suspension and rear axle ect. For the...er hover II project!

 

[78CobraII]

Hmmm...methinks that you will need to add retractable landing gear with the suspension all gone...maybe with hoof-shaped foot pads?

 

[MUSTANG J]

As for that electric car bit, I have thought about that too. I'm trying to get a summer internship at Tesla Motors, and maybe I can learn a thing or two about adapting electric drivetrain to an existing car while I'm there. Wouldn't that be sweet? An electric II that can keep up with a Tesla Roadster Those things weigh about 2700lbs, so if i literally just took the parts from there, and put them into a II, I would have a faster car, theoretically. hmmm [/QUOTE]

There is an artical in the March 2008 Road and Track on the Tesla Roadster.

PERFORMANCE:
0-60 in 4 seconds!!
Top speed of 125MPH
13000RPM redline
peak torque at ZERO!! Maintained to 6000RPM (211ft-lb)
[Torque falls off very gradually on the way to 13000RPM]
248HP @ 8000RPM.
2690LBS (Based on the Lotus Elise)

THIS IS NOT YOUR GRANOLA EATING AUNT'S PRIUS!!

 

[3-0-II]

Thanks for the many replies guys!

I have to admit I slacked off this super bowl weekend and didn't get enough reference photos to start CADing. Luckily, mom's birthday is sunday so I'm coming home friday night again

I'm hopefully going to get started on it soon. Once i have pics i can send certain parts out to be CADed by my friend as well as doing the other half myself.

up until this point the two most complex things ive modeled in 3d are a zippo and an adjustable clamping thingy. This will prove quite challenging

 

[78CobraII]

As for that electric car bit, I have thought about that too. I'm trying to get a summer internship at Tesla Motors, and maybe I can learn a thing or two about adapting electric drivetrain to an existing car while I'm there. Wouldn't that be sweet? An electric II that can keep up with a Tesla Roadster Those things weigh about 2700lbs, so if i literally just took the parts from there, and put them into a II, I would have a faster car, theoretically. hmmm

Tesla just announced that they would be selling motors, transmissions, and battery packs to other manufacturers....

 

[Blue Thunder]

My II coupe weighs 2550 currently, with a stroked 302, built C4, 1959 9" rear, mostly stock suspension, and 17" Cobra R wheels, which are quite heavy. I removed stuff that I didnt need, such as carpet and sound deadening material, front bumper and supports, etc, but all the glass and stock doors are still on it.

The motor is an old '72 302 block, with billet steel main stud girdle, so that part's pretty heavy, but on top is an alum. intake, heads, water pump, pullies, fuel pump and valve covers, so the engine probably weighs maybe 500 pounds complete? The C4 has a lot of custom parts in it, and it's heavier than a stock unit, maybe by 20 pounds or so. What's a stock C4 weigh, 120 pounds? The complete 9" rear is HEAVY, maybe 250-300, plus 175 more for the springs and mounting gear. The 17" wheels and 275 tires weigh probably 150% what the stock wheels and tires weighed. Rough guess, four 17" wheels and tires weigh 150 pounds. Front suspension is pretty heavy, with that flying toilet seat and big crossmember under the motor.. Hard to guess the weight of that, maybe 300-350 pounds? Gas tank, probably not even worth mentioning, as it's just sheet steel, maybe 15 pounds? 1/2" fuel line is alum, so won't count that.
If my math is correct, and my estimates arent too crazy, that places my II between 1000 and 1100 pounds for what remains. Remove the rear bumper and supports, lose another 75-80 pounds. Install lightweight race seats, lose maybe 50 pounds. Fiberglass doors with factory glass in them, lose another 50 pounds.

P.S. I havent considered electric power, but a small turbo diesel making 250hp and 400 ft/lbs of torque would work pretty nicely.

 

[3-0-II]

Tesla just announced that they would be selling motors, transmissions, and battery packs to other manufacturers....

Thats wonderful news!

And you guys are going to hate me for this but I got no good pictures of the car for reference this weekend

I drove up to martinez saturday with a friend to look at a 1969 302 Galaxie 500, which he ended up buying. the rest of the day turned into "lets show off and then have a barbeque!" so I had no time lol.

Not worthy.

I'm going home yet again this weekend though. I'm gonna try and make time to install sidescoops and wheel spacers. if i can figure it out, newer coil springs too (my front end sits way to low. I also want to put my larger tires on, hence the spacers. The car is (hopefully) going into paint soon, so I want to get this work out of the way