Went for a ride in a '11 today

[Shaolin Crane]

A few points to clarifiy.

1st Your 5.0 is no long a 5.0L at all (347ci - 5.7L). It’s tough to claim the superiority of a particular engine when you need to change every component from intake to oil pan (block included) in order to do so.

2nd You can speculate all you'd like about what you “predict” you’ll get for fuel mileage, but until you've done any real world testing, it’s only that...speculation. I too have a predictions with regards to your fuel economy and that’s that with a wild enough head/cam/intake combination that you’re seeing “well over 400hp” in N/A trim like you claim, you’re not going to get anywhere close to 25mpg with 347ci when the rubber finally hits the road like you’re assuming.

3rd Perfect idle is not subjective. When I said perfect, it was quite obvious I referred to a smooth, uninterrupted, clean crisp low RPM “burble”. No excessive lope, no loss of vacuum at idle, or need for increased RPM to keep it running. You engine would quite simply sacrifice a huge amount of horsepower and torque in order to run cam profiles that would achieve these characteristics. With the independent variable cam timing design of the new 5.0L, great idle and superior horsepower are no longer a compromise. You truly can have your cake and eat it too.

4th You would never run 87-octane fuel in your tank, because quite frankly, you don’t have the option of doing so. At least not without having to sacrifice a large portion of drivability and horsepower because of the timing you’ll need to pull out of your tune in order to do so. Again…making one compromise, for another.

5th Emmisions….do we really need to go there? Again, another option that isn’t available to you, so you don’t seem to care about it.

6th This isn’t a pissing match about an “outdated Fox” vs the superiority of an S197. We’re comparing engines here, not the cars themselves.

I realize you’re quite comfortable with giving up and/or compromising fuel economy, the option to run regular gas, emissions, drivability, etc all in the goal of superior horsepower. That’s great. You’re essentially building a race car. That quite frankly should be your goal.

But let’s not turn this debate into something it isn’t, or ignore the fact that you’ve given up a lot to meet that goal.

This new 5.0L hasn’t. It makes over 400hp, it gets great fuel economy, it can run regular gas, it idles smooth as silk and it does pass emissions with flying colours and it does it all with only 302 ci of displacement and without even swapping the air filter. The fact that you’ve chosen to sacrifice these things with you build (and choose to no longer care about them) is irrelevant. The reality still remains that sacrifices had to be made on your end and my point still stands. The old 5.0L OHV is playing catch up to this new mill.

ok this is the only one im going to respond to, not running 87 in my tank has NOTHING to do with loss of power or reduced timing or what not, sure that could come into effect somewhere but the reason i would never run 87 is seeing what ACTUALLY goes into the fuel from years of working in that business, so many additives go into the crap to make it "fuel" like bleaches, artificial solvent chemicals, ether, ethanol, MEK, accetone and what not to reduce the octane level and make more fuel, and with the statement i bow out of this conversation with you, dont expect to come to come into 5.0 talk for PUSHRODS and think everyone is going to become a nutswinger, if you want that go with all the other modular guys in the other forums, and no im not "defending" the old 5.0 since i dont have a modular motor so you can take that idea right out of your mind too

 

[fiveohwblow]

I think I might do the same if some blue oval chick was hot and asking me to fill anything out

 

[fiveohwblow]

I has swingy nuts

 

[tannerc91gt]

I has no nuts

 

[fiveohwblow]

Stop looking in my window tanner

 

[tannerc91gt]

Stop looking in my window tanner

 

[fiveohwblow]

I am NOT going to stand in the shadows.

 

[Shaolin Crane]

I am NOT going to stand in the shadows.

so bring a flashlight

 

[fiveohwblow]

so bring a flashlight

Wisdom. However Tanner frequently abuses flashlights. He thinks they are all "fleshlights"

 

[Shaolin Crane]

Wisdom. However Tanner frequently abuses flashlights. He thinks they are all "fleshlights"

better than using them another way

 

[fiveohwblow]

better than using them another way

 

[Gearbanger 101]

and with the statement i bow out of this conversation with you, dont expect to come to come into 5.0 talk for PUSHRODS and think everyone is going to become a nutswinger, if you want that go with all the other modular guys in the other forums, and no im not "defending" the old 5.0 since i dont have a modular motor so you can take that idea right out of your mind too

I didn't come into this thread talking crap about pushrod engines. It was you in fact that chose to enter this thread with no other intention than to fluff off and dismiss the new 5.0L OHC as inferior to your built 347 with your "ehhh i'll stick the the RIGHT 5.0" comment.

Regardless of how many feel about their old mill, the new 5.0L is a superior engine in every respect. It’s built tougher, runs smoother, and makes more efficient use of its displacement than any version of the 5.0L OHV ever could.

It has nothing to do with being a "nutswinger" and everything to do with accepting reality. I didn’t realize that the original poster starting this thread in the 5.0L Forum meant statistical fact and intelligent reasoning had to be immediately thrown out the window in favour of the chest pumping, knuckle dragging attitude some here display? I’ll never understand why some of you guys insist on getting so defensive about the subject? No other forum on this site takes such issue with a little critique or comparison of their vehicles? If it makes you feel secure about your old OHV, to downplay this new engine, then by all means do so. Just realize that doing so make you look very "small" and simplistic in the process and your inability to carry on a civil conversation about it after your initial interjection only confirms it.

 

[FoxGT87]

gearbanger, i want to first off by stating that i enjoy reading most of your posts as a lot of them to me are interesting. how ever, why must you argue every time someone has a different of opinion? if you come into a forum where you know guys are going to argue where you both have points, then seriously it seems like every time you get into one of these pissing matches your

its like a christian trying to convert a Norman to christianity... really theres not a HUGE difference, it just gets down to things like under wear and woman... or push rods and ITV-CT... zomg

the bigger man is usually the one who just zips it and still keeps his opinion.

 

[fiveohwblow]

Well said FoxGT87

 

[Gearbanger 101]

gearbanger, i want to first off by stating that i enjoy reading most of your posts as a lot of them to me are interesting. how ever, why must you argue every time someone has a different of opinion? if you come into a forum where you know guys are going to argue where you both have points, then seriously it seems like every time you get into one of these pissing matches your

its like a christian trying to convert a Norman to christianity... really theres not a HUGE difference, it just gets down to things like under wear and woman... or push rods and ITV-CT... zomg

the bigger man is usually the one who just zips it and still keeps his opinion.

Who's arguing? Go back to the start of this little exchange and see who it was that cast the first stone? I clarify and qualify the points I make and if challenged, I defend them. If someone else chooses not to so, then that's fine. There’s a big difference between someone having their own opinion and someone dismissing the facts. If I’m wrong, I’ll admit it, but if someone wants to sit down and debate/argue the points with me, then I’ll oblige….but you don’t get to pick and chose through the ones that support your argument and ignore the rest when doing so. A lot of points brought up by Shaolin Crane during this exchange weren’t even the subject of debate on my part, but misdirection of the original point is often easier than facing a debate head on for many.

If attention is not what someone was after, then perhaps the challenging remark shouldn’t have been made in the first place. And if someone wants to bow out of the debate, then that’s fine, but don’t leave a back handed comment like lumping someone into the category of “nutswinger” on your way out the door because you’re unable to intelligently debate, or concede the points of the discussion.

I like to be thorough and cover all my angles and fill in the gaps when I debate. I’m your typical “A-Type” personality, and we can sometimes be systematic to a fault…..what more would you expect?

Well said FoxGT87

.....speaking of a "nuthugger" attitude.

Look dude, you've made it clear in the past that you don't care much for me or my opinion and you seem to go to great lengths to challenge belittle it whenever you get the chance, but if you haven't got anything other than hit and run marks and smiley faced emoticons to add to the conversation, then why don't you butt out?

 

[fiveohwblow]

I couldnt agree more. With both of you!

Agreed. I havent ran into a car yet that I dont say bring it. I know they are out there, but this certainly isn't one

It'd take more than a few mods

Yuuuuuuup. I am only at about 5k for play money atm, but thats going for a quad I believe, oh and a nice set of 4 piston caliper all wheel disc brakes

wah wah wahhhhhh

Yes it makes like 404 with 87 and 412 with 91. Many cars do this nowadays including the sportier Hyundai's. Compliments of variable cam timing and modern tuning/computer tech.

Ive got dyno sheets and accompanying guest (two to be exact) to prove that whilst driving to Seattle with the occasional open throat test I achieved 22 just two short weekends ago. I am sitting RIGHT at 500 at the crank give or take a few

The beauty of EFI!

Well said FoxGT87

.....speaking of a "nuthugger" attitude.

Look dude, you've made it clear in the past that you don't care much for me or my opinion and you seem to go to great lengths to challenge belittle it whenever you get the chance, but if you haven't got anything other than hit and run marks and smiley faced emoticons to add to the conversation, then why don't you butt out?

Thanks for the name calling Brian. First off, I represented my opinion and added knowledge everywhere I deemed I thought it necessary or my prerogative. This is a public forum no? I express myself the way I see fit, as do you so why is it that you can spread your blatant narcissism and the rest of us must either follow suit or GTFO? I choose to be a man of few words during most of the day as I am either working or busy with my family and do not have time for long winded posts. I do not challenge you on a whim or due to some begrudging you claim exists, rather I challenge what I do not agree with when it comes to your opinions. Why is this so wrong again?

Also, take note I agreed with everything FoxGT87 said, meaning the good and critical, therefore I do not have this impending disgust for all that is Brian. Read it for what it is, not perpetuation of nothingness.

 

[7upstang91]

Maybe

 

[ill advised]

Maybe

It's amazing how quickly a thread can turn.

 

[Shaolin Crane]

Who's arguing? Go back to the start of this little exchange and see who it was that cast the first stone? I clarify and qualify the points I make and if challenged, I defend them. If someone else chooses not to so, then that's fine. There’s a big difference between someone having their own opinion and someone dismissing the facts. If I’m wrong, I’ll admit it, but if someone wants to sit down and debate/argue the points with me, then I’ll oblige….but you don’t get to pick and chose through the ones that support your argument and ignore the rest when doing so. A lot of points brought up by Shaolin Crane during this exchange weren’t even the subject of debate on my part, but misdirection of the original point is often easier than facing a debate head on for many.

If attention is not what someone was after, then perhaps the challenging remark shouldn’t have been made in the first place. And if someone wants to bow out of the debate, then that’s fine, but don’t leave a back handed comment like lumping someone into the category of “nutswinger” on your way out the door because you’re unable to intelligently debate, or concede the points of the discussion.

I like to be thorough and cover all my angles and fill in the gaps when I debate. I’m your typical “A-Type” personality, and we can sometimes be systematic to a fault…..what more would you expect?




.....speaking of a "nuthugger" attitude.

Look dude, you've made it clear in the past that you don't care much for me or my opinion and you seem to go to great lengths to challenge belittle it whenever you get the chance, but if you haven't got anything other than hit and run marks and smiley faced emoticons to add to the conversation, then why don't you butt out?

Hmm seems funny ive made very similar comments about other members that got me the result of getting banned, i simply made a statement that i prefer MY 5.0 then you started interjecting words into my mouth "let me tell you why you'd never run 87..."etc. I said that and you fathomed all these reasons why i CANT run it not why i wouldnt, secondly lets talk about the whole "belittling" that you refer to, every argument i have ever seen you jump into you typed out countless pages to make it useless for anyone with an opinion, fact or other to respond to. Did you ever take into account that OTHER people are still very skeptical about this engine, you're so adamantly defending an engine that has even been put into full production yet, whos to say that engine wont be a complete pile of **** once they hit the road, have YOU seen it get 25mpg or has ANYONE seen it yet? I have plenty of intelligent opinions on this engine and i stated right off the bat i didnt want to get into this with you because anyone disagreeing with you ALWAYS turns into an argument why you're right and we're all to "stooopid" to comprehend that, so hows this for a back handed comment. Bite Me, plain and simple i hope that doesnt get twisted into something else either.

 

[tannerc91gt]

Thread is full of fail.
Agree to disagree and let it die, it's only the Internet
I like both of you guys but it's obvious no ones going to come to any sort of agreement and I'd hate to see guy get temp. Banned again over nothing.