Went for a ride in a '11 today

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Hmm seems funny ive made very similar comments about other members that got me the result of getting banned, i simply made a statement that i prefer MY 5.0 then you started interjecting words into my mouth "let me tell you why you'd never run 87..."etc. I said that and you fathomed all these reasons why i CANT run it not why i wouldnt, secondly lets talk about the whole "belittling" that you refer to, every argument i have ever seen you jump into you typed out countless pages to make it useless for anyone with an opinion, fact or other to respond to. Did you ever take into account that OTHER people are still very skeptical about this engine, you're so adamantly defending an engine that has even been put into full production yet, whos to say that engine wont be a complete pile of **** once they hit the road, have YOU seen it get 25mpg or has ANYONE seen it yet? I have plenty of intelligent opinions on this engine and i stated right off the bat i didnt want to get into this with you because anyone disagreeing with you ALWAYS turns into an argument why you're right and we're all to "stooopid" to comprehend that, so hows this for a back handed comment. Bite Me, plain and simple i hope that doesnt get twisted into something else either.
Ford has tested and retested this engine. They're not about to risk replace an entire engine line up with an unproven lemon without thoroughly putting it through its paces. This isn't the 80's or even the 90's anymore. American can manufactures can't afford to roll the dice like they used to, because the foreign market will eat them up in the event of a failure. Just look at how the domestic market is capitalizing on Toyota's folly at the moment. There's simply no room for error anymore.

Horsepower output, fuel mileage, durability, function....These are Ford's publicized statistics based on their real world pre-production testing. Not a wild guess on how the engine is going to perform.

Speaking of wild guess. You state that you haven't had your engine tuned, yet its making "well over" 400hp? How is it possible you know what the output is if you've never had it on the dyno? Should we all be skeptical of your word as well? :shrug: It's a fair question....even if I don't doubt you personally.

I swear, some of guy just can't be pleased. You asked for more power out of the Mustang and you got it in 1999 with the PI heads. Even though it was more powerful and more efficient, it still wasn't worthy of wearing the Mustang moniker. The Mustang got an even bigger power jump in 2005-2010 to 300-315hp. But because the engine wasn't sporting pushrods, or a nice even 5.0L of displacement, it still wasn't worthy in the eyes of many of the old school 5.0L enthusiasts. Despite the fact that it made over 55-70hp more than any production build 302 OHV to date.

Now here we are, just a few short years later, back up to the coveted 5.0L of displacement, sporting a N/A 412hp/390lbs ft of torque and tough internal components (just like people asked for), knocking out 25mpg+, silky smooth operation and superior emissions standards.....making almost 170hp/90lbs ft/tq more than the most powerful N/A production pushrod 302 OHV of the past (a feat I've not seen any 302 OHV matching without adding a pile of displacement, or a power adder I might add) and here some of you still find something to complain about and are already considering it a failure before it even comes to market. Why….because it doesn’t have pushrods!?! Someone please clarify for me, because I'm having a hard time following the logic? :nonono:

I like both of you guys but it's obvious no ones going to come to any sort of agreement and I'd hate to see guy get temp. Banned again over nothing.
As long as the debate remains civil, nobody is going to get any sort of ban. At least not by my hand. I can take it in as well as I can dish it out and I don't hold grudges.

But perhaps you're right. This one may be a fruitless battle. Alright, I give. :)
 
Ford has tested and retested this engine. They're not about to risk replace an entire engine line up with an unproven lemon without thoroughly putting it through its paces. This isn't the 80's or even the 90's anymore. American can manufactures can't afford to roll the dice like they used to, because the foreign market will eat them up in the event of a failure. Just look at how the domestic market is capitalizing on Toyota's folly at the moment. There's simply no room for error anymore.
Engine that were a complete failure still go across the lines of ALL the cars that ford offers, its diesel engine, its small sedan engine etc, hence why the wont keep these same engine for more than 3 years

Horsepower output, fuel mileage, durability, function....These are Ford's publicized statistics based on their real world pre-production testing. Not a wild guess on how the engine is going to perform.

Speaking of wild guess. You state that you haven't had your engine tuned, yet its making "well over" 400hp? How is it possible you know what the output is if you've never had it on the dyno? Should we all be skeptical of your word as well? :shrug: It's a fair question....even if I don't doubt you personally.
Fine i'll concede here, since i tuned it so far to run N/A i cant have any indication of how much power it makes without it going on a dyno, but time and time again the parts i have used have gone well into the 470+rwhp area, so until it hits the dyno i'll stop talking about it

I swear, some of guy just can't be pleased. You asked for more power out of the Mustang and you got it in 1999 with the PI heads. Even though it was more powerful and more efficient, it still wasn't worthy of wearing the Mustang moniker. The Mustang got an even bigger power jump in 2005-2010 to 300-315hp. But because the engine wasn't sporting pushrods, or a nice even 5.0L of displacement, it still wasn't worthy in the eyes of many of the old school 5.0L enthusiasts. Despite the fact that it made over 55-70hp more than any production build 302 OHV to date.

PICT0122.jpg

hows that for not worthy of me? i still would rather have pushrods, just how i roll

Now here we are, just a few short years later, back up to the coveted 5.0L of displacement, sporting a N/A 412hp/390lbs ft of torque and tough internal components (just like people asked for), knocking out 25mpg+, silky smooth operation and superior emissions standards.....making almost 170hp/90lbs ft/tq more than the most powerful N/A production pushrod 302 OHV of the past (a feat I've not seen any 302 OHV matching without adding a pile of displacement, or a power adder I might add) and here some of you still find something to complain about and are already considering it a failure before it even comes to market. Why….because it doesn’t have pushrods!?! Someone please clarify for me, because I'm having a hard time following the logic? :nonono:
No because it has hypertoocrackits, 11:1 compression, powderd metal rods and only available fuel is 91 in most areas, tell me that engine will always be operating at full factory stated efficiency with those type of specs on the engine, im looking at it from a realistic point of view that **** can go wrong and that really screams to me that engine wont like detonation one bit

As long as the debate remains civil, nobody is going to get any sort of ban. At least not by my hand. I can take it in as well as I can dish it out and I don't hold grudges.

But perhaps you're right. This one may be a fruitless battle. Alright, I give. :)
replied
 
Wouldn't additives increase the octane rating? :shrug:

these additives are actually induced to DECREASE octane rating, when fuels are finished the are generally around 100-105 octane depending on brand, location, fuel type etc, so these additives are introduced to the fuel to basically take up space so more fuel can be dispensed without having to actually refine more fuel, so take you have 10 gallons of 100 octane fuel, you add in another 10 gallons of different additives you now have 20 gallons of fuel rated at 91(ish) octane and can sell for a greater quantity than trying to make actual true 91 octane fuel
 
No because it has hypertoocrackits, 11:1 compression, powderd metal rods and only available fuel is 91 in most areas, tell me that engine will always be operating at full factory stated efficiency with those type of specs on the engine, im looking at it from a realistic point of view that **** can go wrong and that really screams to me that engine wont like detonation one bit

To address this point. The new engines like other 4V's have very effective knock sensors. This along with the independent variable cam timing will ensure that detonation isn't an issue. As Mustang5L5 has already brought to light. The engine is rated at 412hp with premium and 402hp with regular 87-octane.

Also as I already pointed out. These aren’t the same rods and pistons used in earlier Modulars. The rods are beefier and the pistons are oil cooled (which will also work to reduce chances of detonation). I mean honestly….do you guys really believe Ford would put out a high volume production engine that wasn’t able to efficiently run on the most popularly used fuel available?
 
Yeah, there is no point in arguing.

The new 5 liter is light years ahead of the one we all know and love. There is more technology in that engine than most can understand(proven in this thread). What USED to happen with certain criteria doesn't anymore.

I love my Mustang and will always have it but you can't compare the new to the old. Just enjoy the fact we have what we have and Ford is FINALLY embracing some 5 liter love with the throw back emblems. This car will only make the 5.0 nameplate go higher, embrace the random guys!
 
Yeah, there is no point in arguing.

The new 5 liter is light years ahead of the one we all know and love. There is more technology in that engine than most can understand(proven in this thread). What USED to happen with certain criteria doesn't anymore.

I love my Mustang and will always have it but you can't compare the new to the old. Just enjoy the fact we have what we have and Ford is FINALLY embracing some 5 liter love with the throw back emblems. This car will only make the 5.0 nameplate go higher, embrace the random guys!

It isn't even comparable to the old 5.0L we all know and love....it's more comparable to the 4V 4.6L engine. Much improved upon.
 
To address this point. The new engines like other 4V's have very effective knock sensors. This along with the independent variable cam timing will ensure that detonation isn't an issue. As Mustang5L5 has already brought to light. The engine is rated at 412hp with premium and 402hp with regular 87-octane.

Also as I already pointed out. These aren’t the same rods and pistons used in earlier Modulars. The rods are beefier and the pistons are oil cooled (which will also work to reduce chances of detonation). I mean honestly….do you guys really believe Ford would put out a high volume production engine that wasn’t able to efficiently run on the most popularly used fuel available?

that fine, still paint me skeptical how well those oil squirters are going to work, to me the more moving parts and the more sensors than the more of a chance there is something to go wrong, sure you can state "well do you think ford would..." when its happened in the past and just because its more important than ever doesnt mean it wont happen again so until some ways down the road when they are in full production and they are actually getting ragged on will i be a believer
 
with a few mods i bet it is :nice:

We can sit and speculate all we want - until its out, and people are doing things to these new 5.0's all we can do is "guess". I bet its in the low 13's right out of the box, with a good driver and slicks 12's ?

With the right driver and track, a 2010 will run lows 13s

Like I already said based on the ride I had the other day, in comparrision to my car- the '11s should easily run 12.80s out of the box with good traction 12.50s with better tires

I would just like to see more displacement in the Mustang, that's been my gripe all along. To make serious power N/A, you need cubes. This new Coyote is a pretty bad ass motor, but its little more than a stroked 4.6 with a high tech valve train and engine management system.

Like I said, I'm waiting for the new Raptor engine to find its way into the Mustang. If you can make 400+ from 5L, imagine what you could do with 6.2L! :eek: The LSX guys would have to go back to the drawing board. :stirpot:

Then you're going to be waiting a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time. :rlaugh:

The 5.0 will get direct injection and ecoboost before you see a 6.2 in a Mustang.

yep

Thread is full of fail.
Agree to disagree and let it die, it's only the Internet
I like both of you guys but it's obvious no ones going to come to any sort of agreement and I'd hate to see guy get temp. Banned again over nothing.

Didn't start out that way :notnice:
 
I love my Mustang and will always have it but you can't compare the new to the old. Just enjoy the fact we have what we have and Ford is FINALLY embracing some 5 liter love with the throw back emblems. This car will only make the 5.0 nameplate go higher, embrace the random guys!
Well said.

Didn't start out that way :notnice:
Exactly, and it's not hard to spot where the derail began.
 
that fine, still paint me skeptical how well those oil squirters are going to work, to me the more moving parts and the more sensors than the more of a chance there is something to go wrong, sure you can state "well do you think ford would..." when its happened in the past and just because its more important than ever doesnt mean it wont happen again so until some ways down the road when they are in full production and they are actually getting ragged on will i be a believer

That's alright....be a skeptic. Just consider as far as the whole "more moving parts and more sensors, the more of a chance there's something to go wrong" arguement goes. That's exactly the mindset many had about the 2V and 4V Modulars when they first came out and they were a smashing success. It was said again when the 3V's hit the scene and they've been an ever bigger success than the 2V's and 4V's. :shrug:

Yeah... they're called NON-PI motors. :rlaugh:

Touche....but they still ran on regular gas did then not? And they also put out the same amount of power as the more popular (and larger) 5.0L OHV they replaced. Not a success as far as huge horsepower makers goes, but a good reliable engine it was none the less. Once you got past the fault of the all plastic lower intake manifold that is. :p
 
Touche....but they still ran on regular gas did then not? And they also put out the same amount of power as the more popular (and larger) 5.0L OHV they replaced. Not a success as far as huge horsepower makers goes, but a good reliable engine it was none the less. Once you got past the fault of the all plastic lower intake manifold that is. :p


LOL... I just figured someone might appreciate the inference. :D