Mach 1 What kind of motor oil do you use?

Discussion in 'Special Production' started by djlethalwang, May 10, 2005.

  1. Snake oil, any way you look at it.

    More reading from Amway/Amsoil propaganda. ALL HAIL THE PORCELAIN GOD OF AMSOIL/AMWAY!!!!!!

    Show some PROOF of these claims. I don't want to read what you regurgitate from some pamphlet.

    How many of these so-called Amsoil/Amway experts have a P.E. behind their names or have credentials from the ASME or API? I'm going to guess ZERO.

    Your day with the FTC will come.
  2. So what exactly is your beef with Amsoil? Is it the marketing that you have an issue with, the products, or the Dealers? I can understand some not understanding the marketing and also why some might not be open minded to their marketing. I can understand the contempt some can have about some of the Dealers, some can be pushy. I can't understand the negative opinion on the products when so many non-Amsoil companies and publications recommend them and/or synthetics in general.

    I list magazines that have nothing to do with Amsoil other than printing the name in an article or giving their own review of the products. Somehow this is proganda. I list the main company that does the testing for Amsoil and numerous other companies, but because they do test Amsoil products, this now disqualifies them in your eyes and is more proganda. I suppose this should then negate all the other lubricants and companies that get rated by them as well. I list an article written by a former API employee in a trade magazine, which I'm sure you are familiar with with your education, yet somehow this guy now is pushing Amsoil proganda. His article was written before any mention on the Amsoil site or by any Dealers, it was news to everyone when the article came out. I list people with credentials, yet these are no good just because they are a Dealers and they don't hold the ones you want to read about. And even if they did, I still don't think you would find any of them credible for whatever reason, if just for the reason that they used or sold Amsoil. There would be nothing I could say or do to prompt any other thought other than the one you are stuck with.

    I turn the question around to you. Why don't you bring out some proof why Amsoil is the bad product you believe it is. Why the information we have as Dealers and what other publications print are all false. Tell us why we should not use Amsoil, I might quit selling the product. I want to sell something I believe in and not feel guilty because I'm just fooling people out of their money. I'm guessing you view all the readers on this board (or anywhere else), as suckers for using Amsoil. All you have so far come out with is "it's propaganda" and "Amsoil lies" and "snake-oil" with nothing to back up your claims to why this is so. Well, here is your chance, prove to us the lies and what aspects you do not agree with. Who knows, maybe you will draw some attention so that the FTC looks into it more. Why don't you file a complaint yourself with them, anyone can. Then you can take full credit for stopping the spreading of so many lies to consumers.

    Are you familiar with the different Groups of oils out there? How many are there? I'm talking about the ones the API uses, not ones you or some other company thinks are oil groups, but the "official" ones. Which group do you recommend and why? What makes each group different, and which ones are considered synthetics, and why should we then avoid them? What are your feelings on Mobil 1 (and their Extended Performance oil), Royal Purple, Redline, Castrol Syntec and all the other synthetic manufacturers out there? I would like to hail your knowledge, and the PROOF you seem to have backing up your opinions on this. :hail2: I'm really not expecting you to answer, you haven't answered anything so far, merely contradicted anything I have said. I figure this will only prompt the same uninformative "Oh yeah, well Amsoil/Amway lies" answer. Prove me wrong and start backing up your comments.
  3. Snake oil salesman......

    You do a great job of regurgitating Amway/Amsoil propaganda, though I doubt you can explain any of it.

    I have a problem with a company that seems to spend a great deal of its advertising capital attacking competing products and pointing to "articles" and publications it funds in order to defend its position.

    What PROOF do you have? Anything from SAE? ASME? An automobile manufacturer?
  4. Castrol and have never had a problem...
  5. I use Mobil 1 Synthetic 5-20 and tried out a K&N oil filter for the first time. No proof of how good either of these products are, but I've been using Mobil 1 for 12 years, every since I switched to synthetic oil and I'm happy with it. :)
  6. I wondered what happened to my answer? So from what I understand, your main objection is the marketing aspect of the company, not the quality of the products themselves. I'm not sure if I could explain it to you in any way that you would accept as any sort of answer. Some articles might be Amsoil written, such as press releases, or when a publication contacts Amsoil to write an article on their view of a certain aspect of synthetics or the market. Of course you will then get an answer direct from Amsoil from their point of view. Other articles are written by completely seperate companies that have nothing to do with Amsoil. They either are doing their own comparison, writing their own article and Amsoil gets mentioned (along with maybe other brands), or, of course, the opinion of that writer or publication based on their experiences. I myself like to see these articles to see what people are saying or how they are reviewing the products I sell. I don't see how mentioning that there was an article in a certain publication in regards to Amsoil is any more propaganda than reading about a movie in the local review section of your newspaper. If the review is good and you tell someone "I read that that movie was good in the paper," does that mean you are passing out that movie's propoganda?

    Why does Amsoil compare itself to other oils? When you go and buy tires, don't you ask the tire shop which tires would work better on your car for your type of driving conditions (or ask for opinions here)? How often do you ask a salesperson which product is better for whatever it is you are looking to buy? The only thing Amsoil is doing here is having a lab, not owned or operated by them, test their products against other company products and they post the results. If these results are false, let the other company sue or come forward and show that the findings are wrong? I've seen other oils companies do similar, but usually list it as Brand A and Brand B. Why are they afraid to list the other brand? When I want to know a comparison of anything, I like to know if they are testing against other quality products and how they rate, rather than testing against a lesser product that maybe nearly everyone can show they do better against. It's very easy to give a generic name or none at all and claim to be the best, but let them come forward and put their rep on the line and basically challenge the other companies to prove otherwise. Why don't the other oil companies list test results like Amsoil? Maybe someone should take these results Amsoil claims and contact the other companies and ask them specifically how they rate on these tests advertised and see if they will get an answer?

    The organization you list are responisible to come up with the specifications that a product needs to fall within. For example, as I mentioned, the SAE makes the standard of what specs are needed for an oil to fall within the various oil groups. They make the standard. It's up to the manufacturers to make a fluid that meets that standard. They are not there to say which companies are allowed to meet it and which ones they say can or cannot meet it. A series of standardized ASTM testing will determine whether the fluid meets those specs and only the specs that are met should then be listed on the product.

    I know I'm probably just "regurgitating" again to you, so I guess we can "agree to disagree." I have always liked the products and have used them, that's why I became a Dealer. Many others like the products and that is why they buy them, sometimes from me :). You don't like them because you feel it's all false hype and I doubt that anything will change that opinion. I don't really intend to, but just don't want others to get confused by one person's opinion. Anyone can use what they feel will offer them the best performance. I am willing to pass on what I think is the best product and why. In the end, it's up to them to do what research they feel is necessary and figure out what the best product for them is.

    And one last mention to avoid any confusion, Amsoil and Amway are in no way related to each other other than sharing the "AM" in the name. In the case of Amsoil, it is based on the founders name AMatuzio. He was recently credited for his work and development of synthetics on the History Channel's Modern Marvels series. The episode was called "Lube Job" and was documenting the history of lubrication. For those interested, it is going to be re-broadcast on Sunday August 28 at noon. I missed the first airing of it earlier this month.
  7. so could the experts tell me whether its too terribly bad to be running 5w-30 instead of the 5w-20 stated in the manual?
  8. Probably the 5W-30 is just as good as 5W-20 for normal driving. My limited understanding is that the higher number oil should hold up better under higher load such as when a high performance engine is being worked to its maximum capabilities or in a truck pulling heavy loads (for which 10W-40 oil is often standard). So what is the point of the 5W-20 oil anyway? I have only had two oil changes on my '04 Mach. The first given free by the selling dealer would have used the Motorcraft 5W-20 (synthetic-blend?). My second oil change done at a Firestone shop used 5W-30 synthetic-blend (apparently now their basic oil - a year ago they were using regular oil and charging extra for the synthetic-blend).

    One key point with synthetics that may be the biggest advantage is their better flow characteristics at low temperature. This means the oil gets to all parts of the engine much faster on those cold starts, and we know cold starts are where >90% of engine wear often occurs. So if you live in a cold climate, you may see longer engine life with synthetic, but less so in a warm climate.
  9. Sorry, been behind on stuff on my end. You shouldn't have any problems running the 5W-30. Even when the oil goes out of grade during oil analysis, say for example you start with a 5W-30 and testing shows it has become a 5W-40 later after use, it is still considered good. Of course being thicker it won't perform as well when it comes to MPG. This was one of the main reasons Ford and Honda started using 5W-20. At worse you might notice a slight drop in MPG using the 5W-30.

    Agreed, synthetics do flow better in colder weather and typically are able to handle more heat as well.

    To add to the above discussion, if anyone watched the History Channel this past weekend Modern Marvels re-aired a program on lubrication. It covered all sorts of different lubrication and advancements and when synthetics were discussed, the founder of Amsoil was given the credit for developing it for automotive use and it showed a lot of footage from the Amsoil factory. There also is an interview and article in the latest issue of Lubes n Greases with Amsoil where it explains where they came from and their company philosphy. A reprinted copy is available to read on the Amsoil Web Site:

    Lastly, after thinking about Jim's request for some manufacturer proof, I don't know if this will count, and I'm sure he can debate how official this is, but when Amsoil first developed their 5W-20, they received a fax from Ford thanking them for coming up with a 5W-20 in support of their new oil specs. I asked around to some of the other Dealers and was given a copy that they received. Below is the link if you want to see it: