What rear wheel hp stock?

Discussion in '2005 - 2009 Specific Tech' started by Gregor111, Sep 23, 2008.

  1. I had a 2004 Mach 1 that I had to sell after a year for financial reasons. I should be able to pick up a new 2009 in the next month or so and I can't wait to have a mustang again.

    Anyone know about what rear wheel hp these cars are putting out stock? Most Mach's were good for about 270 or so and I am curious how the 3 valve will compare both numerically and on the street. I imagine the engines are about the same until 5,000 rpm or so where the 32 valve engine probably pulls better.

    Can you get to 300 rwhp with just a CAI, tune and axle-back? I imagine this alone will require premium gas but at $4 a gallon who cares.


  2. I dyno'd at 260-265 rwhp. I got 289 rwhp with a C&L Racer with a 88mm maf tube, 93 octane tune, and Magnapacks as a mid muffler system. I added UDPs and CMCVs and got to 304 rwhp. So that's what it takes to get to ~300 rwhp.
  3. Roughly 240 rwhp (auto) or roughly 260 rwhp (manual). My '03 Mach 1 (manual) made 274 rwhp.

    The Mach 1's have more torque and pull harder at high rev's, while the 3V GT's have a very flat/broad power curve. The 3V GT's don't feel fast due to the broad power curve, but that feeling is deceptive.

    Get a decent tune in a 3V GT (even a canned tune from a handheld tuner) and a 3v GT will perform much like a Mach 1 at the strip. Just a couple basic bolt on's on a 3V GT and you'll (almost) forget about your Mach 1 (although I wish I could have both in the driveway).
  4. I've never been beat by a non-FI Mach 1. I put down 241 stock (stick). My stock tune was actually a bit rich, surprisingly. I've seen stock numbers anywhere from 235-275 depending on the car, dyno, and weather.
  5. My '07 GT made my '04 mach 1 look like a toy, even when it was stock.
  6. Exactly.
  7. That's because you never raced my Mach 1. :) Bone stock (except drag radials) my '03 Mach 1 (manual) went a best of 13.01 @ 105+ with quite a few other 13.0XX timeslips. Did I mention that was stock? Stock paper air filter all the way back through the factory exhaust. Just d/r's to get traction.

    The 03/04 Mach 1's were quite a performer from the factory and my personal favorite of all the SN95 Mustangs. Quicker in the 1/4 mile than our S197 GT's, stock vs stock, by .25 to .50 second for the manual cars. Unfortunately, the aftermarket is weak for the Mach 1's, while the aftermarket is strong for the S197's, hence the reason I bailed and got my '07 GT instead.
  8. I love the Mach 1's and Termi's don't get me wrong. Maybe the people I've raced can't drive (though they were on DR's also), but I beat them every time.
  9. Same here.
  10. So what you're saying is that you didn't know how to drive your Mach? :shrug:
  11. My 05 Mustang GT made 276 RWHP on a Mustang Dyno with a SLP Loud Mouth Axleback exhaust as my only mod. It has run a 13.39 @ 101 MPH with a MGW shifter, SCT X-Cal 2 and SLP Axleback with M/T ET Street Slicks at a DA of over 2500 feet.

    The closest local Mach 1 at the track I go to has a best of 13.5x @ 101 with way more mods than me. I have posted that Mach's mod list many times. I am not going to find it again.

    I have never lost to a Mach 1, well actually I have never lost to another Mustang. My friend had an 04 Mach 1 and we raced at the track. I have beat him every time, I drove his car and still couldn't catch my car's time.

    I have said it before and I will say it again. An 03 - 04 Mach 1 stock is a drivers race with a 05+ Mustang GT stock with a slight advantage to the S197.
  12. We're all friends here right? We all love our S197's, right? Let me just say that you are very wrong about a stock S197 having the slight advantage over a stock 03/04 Mach 1 (at least when talking about manual transmissions), although you are correct that it is often a driver's race. Also, an S197 GT automatic does have the slight edge over a Mach 1 automatic (5 speed vs 4 speed).

    The vast majority of stock manual Mach 1's run low 13's @ 104-106 mph on drag radials. The vast majority of stock manual S197 GT's run mid 13's @ 101-103 mph on drag radials. Sure, there are some exceptions, as factory tolerances mean that there are some variances in supposedly identical cars. Plus, weather and track conditions can play big into results. However, in the big picture when you look at most cars most of the time, the slight edge goes to the Mach 1 - stock vs stock.

    I believe I'm 100% unbiased as I have personally owned both cars. Bolted the same pair of drag radials on both cars, ran them at the same dragstrip, and I believe I'm an above average driver (26 years drag racing at the same track - mostly with stick shift cars).
  13. No, I mean the Mach was decidedly slower. :Zip2:

  14. If you ran quicker in your GT than you did in your Mach 1, then it was by a miniscule amount at best. The cars as stated over and over and over again are too close performance wise to really dedicate a winner one way or the other. To suggest otherwise proves ones ignorance more than anything. Making a statement like "made my '04 mach 1 look like a toy, even when it was stock." insinuates that your GT MURDERED your Mach 1. And if this is the case, then the only logical conclusion one could derive from this statement is that you couldn't drive your Mach for ****. ;)

    The S197 tends to be the easier car to get out of the hole between the two and as such the "seat of the pants meter" may fool owners into thinking the GT the quicker of the two. But the Mach's torquier bottom end and top end charge seems to make up the difference between the two by the time they get to the finish line in any case. :shrug:
  15. The GT consistently ran the 1/4 .5 quicker than the Mach on street tires. Both cars are automatic.

    You are in no position to have an opinion on this subject at any rate as you don't drive either of these cars.

    You drive a POS Cougar.:rlaugh:
  16. You are absolutely correct that the S197 is easier to launch. The Mach 1's overpower street tires with that extra torque, so a street race may often go to the S197 as a Mach 1 struggles for traction. Bolt on some sticky tires, and the Mach 1 is usually the winner.

    You are also correct that the Mach 1's top end charge (courtesy of those beautiful 4 valve heads) will dominate a stock S197 at the tall end of the dragstrip (hence the higher trap speeds of the Mach 1). So any street race from a rolling start should favor the Mach 1 over the S197 (again, stock vs stock).

    My 07 GT is now much quicker than my Mach 1 was, but it took mods to get there.
  17. A comparison of automatics does favor the S197 GT (stock vs stock). Credit the extra gear vs the lousy automatic in the Mach 1 for that. Most automatic Mach 1's seem to run around 14 seconds flat in the 1/4 mile, while automatic S197's often run in the mid to high 13's. No surprise that few automatic Mach 1's were built (roughly 20% of total Mach 1 production).
  18. That's all I have and I'm only at 287rwhp. :nice:
  19. Well I have over 12 years racing experience and most of it is with a 9 second 1/4 mile stick shift Fox Mustang( 1988 Cobra ). I consider myself a pretty good( above average driver ) with a stick shift as well. I am basing what I have said with what I experienced driving my 05 Mustang GT and my friend's 04 Mach 1 which is a 5 spd as well. I am also basing what I have actually seen 03 - 04 Mach 1's and 05+ GT do at the tracks I go to.

    I am aware of what cars are doing according to ET lists, but a lot of factors go into those as well( Track Prep, weather, altitude ) to name a few which are not considered. It is pretty tough to compare a 13.3 to a 13.3 without looking at all the factors...

    My friend's Mach 1 had a MGW shifter, Magnaflow cat back and Mickey Thompson 275/40R17 ET Street Drag Radials. I had 255/50R16 ET Street Drag Radials, MGW Shifter and SLP Axleback. The cars in most respects were about the same for mods.

    My personal best with his car was 13.88 @ 102 MPH. That same day, actually racing him, I ran 13.64 @ 102 MPH with my car. I will have to go back and look at the slip but he was somewhere in the 14's @ 9x MPH. I made a few passes with his car and was consistently running 13.9x - 13.8x @ 100 - 102 MPH with the best being the 13.88. That day, my car was consistently running low 13.7's with the 13.64 being my best.

    His car had a slight MPH advantage, mine had a fairly significant 60 ft advantage. I don't attribute it to me running the smaller radials either because I had a harder time hooking my car than I did with his. I have said in the past that the radials I ran were to small for my car. I have also tried his drag radials on my car and my 60 ft improved with his tires but not to the point that I felt justified buying them. That is why I moved to the ET Street Slick. I didn't go down to 15" because I didn't want to do a bunch of crap to make 15" wheels fit.

    I don't want to hear there was no such thing as a 1988 Cobra either. 1987 - 1992 Mustang GT sold in Canada could be either a badged a GT or Cobra. Mine was badged as a Cobra.

  20. That is pretty close to what I want without getting too pricey . . .

    Does your tune require premium fuel?