Where to get turbos??

[millhouse]

To do a single turbo indeed you need a bigger one, I have a buddy that went to a scraper picked up a turbo off diesel truck WITH an internal wastegate. With that said the rest of the math falls into place. I don’t really agree with doing stuff like that because usually it ends up half fast (do to lack of knowledge not always its just my opinion so no quoting on that! now on the other hand I did go to http://www.turbomustangs.com/turbokitpage.php and i saw a cheap kit there 2k for a single turbo setup, the target hp was 400 with a max of 900 very respectable numbers and for 2k (your intercooler is going to end up being more then half the price of that) I cant see how you can go wrong. Now if you look at the rest of the kits, look at the price, and what you’re getting out of it, the single turbo setups are ahead for the most part. The first post I was trying more or less to get the point across that the single turbo setups are better for VERY high hp numbers, ass you can see the kit for 10k there is a point where if you want to make power you gotta pay to play and that is defiantly in that category. But according to the information given it might b better all around as well (that’s more or less an opinion once again) but the twin turbo set ups are still cool and very respectable. That's my explination i think i did a good job at it.
So all in all I believe you just got by the newbie

Perhaps you should do a bit more research yourself.

The $2k for the single setup does not include the turbo, nor does it include injectors maf etc.

Now, as far as price goes I will agree that new kits are generally more expensive in a twin setup than for a single. More than anything else is the cost of two brand new head units and perhaps a two into one intercooler.

As far as a DIY setup goes...the twin setup is hard to beat. There are an abundance of turbo's with wastegates for the twin setup. There are quite a few more options to be had as well.

I'd say generally a twin setup is cheaper to build than a single for your DIY'er.
The turbo's are cheaper and usually include working wastegates. The extra cost of plumbing for the twins is minimal. More often than not, your singles will need a quality wastegate wish adds some $$$.

 

[Adi]

There is an option in the kit that allows you to upgrade the turbo it comes with, i doubt they would sell you a turbo for 100 bucks if there nothing was included in the kit
Turbo upgrade T70 $100

If you have proof otherwise could you share it with me millhouse

 

[millhouse]

There is an option in the kit that allows you to upgrade the turbo it comes with, i doubt they would sell you a turbo for 100 bucks if there nothing was included in the kit
Turbo upgrade T70 $100

If you have proof otherwise could you share it with me millhouse

I'm not sure I know what you mean.

Please elaborate.

 

[Adi]

I'm not sure I know what you mean.

Please elaborate.

Please correct me if im wrong but everything in the 79-93 Fox Stage I kit is listed in the chart below. That is the way the turbo kit page is designed to say what the kit is called whats in the kit and what the options are.This means that there is in fact an intercooler (Bar-Plate core is 24x10x3.5"
2.5" inlet, 3" outlet) AND turbo (60-1).

This is a base kit that can be run with stock components

I would think the stock components mean, injectors as well as MAF.
Now with that said if i am wrong i would like to see a link posted with the information and I WILL APOLOGIZE AT ONCE if not then thats two points for the newbie?

 

[millhouse]

Please correct me if im wrong but everything in the 79-93 Fox Stage I kit is listed in the chart below. That is the way the turbo kit page is designed to say what the kit is called whats in the kit and what the options are.This means that there is in fact an intercooler (Bar-Plate core is 24x10x3.5"
2.5" inlet, 3" outlet) AND turbo (60-1).
I would think the stock components mean, injectors as well as MAF.
Now with that said if i am wrong i would like to see a link posted with the information and I WILL APOLOGIZE AT ONCE if not then thats two points for the newbie?

Well, here you go. http://www.forcedfab.com/product_info.php?cPath=8_29&products_id=64

You'll notice that it does inlude the turbo, yet the price is $2499.99.

I'd say that either the turbomustangs website is wrong, or the indeed once offerec a kit without the turbo.

You'll also notice that it pictures an intercooler, yet it does not come with one. If you want the intercooler and a blow off valve it will cost ya an extra $800.

Notice too that the fuel injectors, maf, fuel pump etc.




Apology Accepted.

 

[88GT17MA]

internet talk is one thing, actually doing it is another. Either way it will cost $$$ (if you want it "right"). Sure I can flip headers, bolt on crappy t3's, but there is alot more to it.

FWIW, finding my (single) turbo was the easiest part.

 

[millhouse]

internet talk is one thing, actually doing it is another. Either way it will cost $$$ (if you want it "right"). Sure I can flip headers, bolt on crappy t3's, but there is alot more to it.

FWIW, finding my (single) turbo was the easiest part.

Those "crappy t3's" can produce enough horsepower to split a stock block in half. I'd say there is absolutly nothing wrong with using them.

 

[fiveohGT]

I'd rather pay for a kit so i can blame someone when something goes wrong

 

[millhouse]

I'd rather pay for a kit so i can blame someone when something goes wrong

You can blame them all you want...but the fact of the matter is if you install it, it's on you. The only type of warranty you'll get is a limited cracking warranty for the hot parts.

I know know the in's and out's of my complete turbo system. If something goes wrong, the chances are much higher that I'll quickly be able to pin-point the problem and fix it. It's one of the great many benefits of the DIY kit's.

 

[nmcgrawj]

To do a single turbo indeed you need a bigger one, I have a buddy that went to a scraper picked up a turbo off diesel truck WITH an internal wastegate. With that said the rest of the math falls into place. I don’t really agree with doing stuff like that because usually it ends up half fast (do to lack of knowledge not always its just my opinion so no quoting on that! now on the other hand I did go to http://www.turbomustangs.com/turbokitpage.php and i saw a cheap kit there 2k for a single turbo setup, the target hp was 400 with a max of 900 very respectable numbers and for 2k (your intercooler is going to end up being more then half the price of that)

$2000 to reach 400hp...then A LOT MORE cash to hit 900hp newb.You are gonna run a 400hp car on stock injectors and MAF? Not smart but hey go ahead since the new guy knows it all. Intercoolers cost more than $1000? Jeeez must be made out of pure gold or something

I cant see how you can go wrong. Now if you look at the rest of the kits, look at the price, and what you’re getting out of it, the single turbo setups are ahead for the most part. The first post I was trying more or less to get the point across that the single turbo setups are better for VERY high hp numbers, ass you can see the kit for 10k there is a point where if you want to make power you gotta pay to play and that is defiantly in that category. But according to the information given it might b better all around as well (that’s more or less an opinion once again) but the twin turbo set ups are still cool and very respectable. That's my explination i think i did a good job at it.
So all in all I believe you just got by the newbie

So lets get it straight...are we talking about turbo setups PERIOD or turbo kits you can buy? I dont care about what kits you can buy. IMO they are ALL overpriced...maybe not all but the majority. Just because its in a "kit" they charge more. You can do it MUCH MUCH MUCH cheaper on your own. Have just as much power. Just as much reliability.

So....i got owned when you proved what? That i can do a twin setup for your 2,000 WITH upgraded injectors, maf, and make A LOT more than 400hp? Lol Yea you are the smart one. Quick question, how did you prove that singles are better for high performance?

Both setups can get you what you want. Which is cheaper depends on the person doing the modification. Guys do it for less than $1,000....thats because they have just about all the resources they need at their finger tips.


You are a little too cocky man. You sound like a kid in highschool who thinks he knows all there is about this stuff. This is a place is for people to try to learn about their options....not one side. Its about who you know. What you know. And what you got. Those things will decide the price.

 

[nmcgrawj]

You can blame them all you want...but the fact of the matter is if you install it, it's on you. The only type of warranty you'll get is a limited cracking warranty for the hot parts.

I know know the in's and out's of my complete turbo system. If something goes wrong, the chances are much higher that I'll quickly be able to pin-point the problem and fix it. It's one of the great many benefits of the DIY kit's.

There is something called user or installation error. The company isnt going to warranty the stuff unless something CRAZY happends. Its high performance modifications....warrantys were eliminated a long time ago.

 

[nmcgrawj]

internet talk is one thing, actually doing it is another. Either way it will cost $$$ (if you want it "right"). Sure I can flip headers, bolt on crappy t3's, but there is alot more to it.

FWIW, finding my (single) turbo was the easiest part.

You are right for the most part. Crappy t3's? Those turbos are proven to perform and to make power. Period. Not to crappy IMO. Im not flipping headers....they will be made by a buddy of mine with a total of $200 invested. Like i said, its all about who you know and what you(they) can do.

But there is alot more to it....planning and patience is the key to keeping the cost down.

 

[Adi]

Well, here you go. http://www.forcedfab.com/product_info.php?cPath=8_29&products_id=64

You'll notice that it does inlude the turbo, yet the price is $2499.99.

I'd say that either the turbomustangs website is wrong, or the indeed once offerec a kit without the turbo.

You'll also notice that it pictures an intercooler, yet it does not come with one. If you want the intercooler and a blow off valve it will cost ya an extra $800.

Notice too that the fuel injectors, maf, fuel pump etc.




Apology Accepted.

Fair play, clearly my bad and i apologize. you came up with hard facts with nothing left to dispute. very respectable.

 

[Adi]

Nmcgrawj arguing with you is a lost cause if you could come with hard facts that can no longer be disputed I would respect that but there isn’t so, no. I just wanted to show a build up that cheap and the price didn’t fluctuate, I ended up being wrong about it WITH actual facts to prove this.
400hp with boost how much higher can you go before you detonate? Remember air is a lot hotter because it is running off a turbo so you NEED a high efficiency intercooler otherwise you’ll be running a lot less boost then what you hoped for and yes the intercoolers are expensive maybe not the china ones that you would buy with terrible efficiency. So your comment about made of gold is so that’s it no more arguing that’s my last reply to you I don’t feel like getting home from work just to see what the guy that needs to post all the time even if he has no info, has to say. Enjoy!

 

[nmcgrawj]

Nmcgrawj arguing with you is a lost cause if you could come with hard facts that can no longer be disputed I would respect that but there isn’t so, no. I just wanted to show a build up that cheap and the price didn’t fluctuate, I ended up being wrong about it WITH actual facts to prove this.
400hp with boost how much higher can you go before you detonate? Remember air is a lot hotter because it is running off a turbo so you NEED a high efficiency intercooler otherwise you’ll be running a lot less boost then what you hoped for and yes the intercoolers are expensive maybe not the china ones that you would buy with terrible efficiency. So your comment about made of gold is so that’s it no more arguing that’s my last reply to you I don’t feel like getting home from work just to see what the guy that needs to post all the time even if he has no info, has to say. Enjoy!

High boost + over 400hp = detonate? Really? Much more to detonation than that. You can detonate N/A...as well as 5lbs, 10lbs, 15lbs, 20, etc etc etc no matter what. I wonder how all these guys running over 400hp get by and keep their engines together. The TUNE is the main thing that has to do with detonation. A good tune means that your whole combination is up to par....your fuel system needs to be adequate enough to handle the HP you want to make. Etc...etc...etc.

The "china" IC's are tried and proven man. Once again...you dont have to spend TOP dollar for a IC. Sure you can get one that is the most efficient thing in the world but is it a must? Nope. Will one of the "china" IC's get the job done well enough? There are plenty of guys running the china stuff on ebay with GREAT success. Once again, what boost range are you referring to? Who do u know that has this stuff that it doesnt work for? What test have you seen where someone picked up boost from switching out this "china" IC? Or is this just what guys say based on it coming from a seller on ebay? Just looking for those "facts".......

Im not arguing with you im simply just trying to put out facts of this stuff. High boost/high hp doesnt = detonation...if anything it creates a environment where detonation is more likely to cause a lot more damage. The tune controls detonation. You can run 30lbs of boost and 700hp and with the right tune you will be detonation free. You can run 5 lbs of boost at 350 hp and with the wrong tune have detonation and blow your headgasket or worse. There is more to it but its my understanding that this is the basics.

BTW, IMO post count does not = knowledge. I've been here for over 2 years so i expect my post level to be high. Im learning about this turbo stuff more and more everyday. Im by no means an expert and i am always open to learn new things and to be corrected. I didnt pick sides in this thread...you came in acting like you knew it all and what you say goes. Wrong.

Here is the guy that has taught me most of what i know and he runs the "china" IC off ebay. Take a look at his site. He does all the work himself. Builds hot sides for guys. He does it ALL. He doesnt just talk about it on the internet and say "his buddy" did this. So i think he knows a thing or two. And if he says those IC's are good to go then by all means i think they are. The guys on TM say they are good to go too. Maybe you should teach us all a lesson on whats good and whats bad.

His name is OinkAodeOink on here and his site is this:http://www.geocities.com/turbofiveslow/index.html

IM him and talk with him....he knows his stuff. Spend some MORE time on turbomustangs also. Guys go PLENTY fast without spending top dollar on parts bro.

Im here to try to help other guys out from my experiences and things i have learned from others that have done the stuff themselves. Feel free to correct me in any way, im always looking to learn. This is what i have been taught...is it wrong?


lol sorry for the essay

 

[nmcgrawj]

Oh and lets not try to ruin the thread with personal attacks or anything. Lets just put what we know out on the table so we can learn from it from each other and from others. If i offended you in anyway, i apologize. Too many threads with GOOD info get lost with personal battles. Lets keep this to the subject and not any "low blows".

Cool?



Edit: Just remembered...for whatever reason you are against Ebay IC's there are guys on Turbomustangs who are making dual in/single out IC's in the $300 range...so obviously a single in/out will be cheaper. These IC's will be of good quality too. Just a FYI.

 

[TrophyHead]

Millhouse knows his stuff guys.

I'm waiting for some B&G twin turbo headers. And I'll be off from there. There's no question turboing is the way to go.

 

[Adi]

Oh and lets not try to ruin the thread with personal attacks or anything. Lets just put what we know out on the table so we can learn from it from each other and from others. If i offended you in anyway, i apologize. Too many threads with GOOD info get lost with personal battles. Lets keep this to the subject and not any "low blows".

Cool?



Edit: Just remembered...for whatever reason you are against Ebay IC's there are guys on Turbomustangs who are making dual in/single out IC's in the $300 range...so obviously a single in/out will be cheaper. These IC's will be of good quality too. Just a FYI.

Alright nmcgrawj I admire your sportsmanship and apologize for being a prick. I had the wrong impression (guys that just post simple sentences that have no idea what’s going on). About the intercoolers though I am friends (no not internet friends lol) with people on the DSM board and they have a different view they would rather spend the cash on the efficiency. Then again they are only running 2.0L motors I mean I’ve drank more beer in one sitting so I guess every little bit counts type thing. Its just go hard or go home type idea. I’m sure we all know if there’s a budget though you have to say good enough on a lot of stuff or nothing will get done. So I respect you view and ya were cool

 

[millhouse]

Adi, you have to keep things in perspective when talking about stangs.

Our weak stock blocks are only capable of 500 rwhp before they start to become a HUGE liability. There is no point purchasing a monster intercooler that supports 1000 h/p.

Take mine for example. I bought it straight off the boat from china (e-bay) for $175 shipped. It's a decent bar and plate, 12x24x3 horizontal flow intercooler with cast end tanks. It will support well past 500 h/p and has been used by the ls1 guys with great sucess for quite some time now.

It's all in the reasearch my friend.

 

[nmcgrawj]

Alright nmcgrawj I admire your sportsmanship and apologize for being a prick. I had the wrong impression (guys that just post simple sentences that have no idea what’s going on). About the intercoolers though I am friends (no not internet friends lol) with people on the DSM board and they have a different view they would rather spend the cash on the efficiency. Then again they are only running 2.0L motors I mean I’ve drank more beer in one sitting so I guess every little bit counts type thing. Its just go hard or go home type idea. I’m sure we all know if there’s a budget though you have to say good enough on a lot of stuff or nothing will get done. So I respect you view and ya were cool

haha i know what you mean man. Those simple short sentences can be a little shaky sometimes... i remember when i was on hardcore50 and made one of my first threads and Mark O'neal came in and simply said "it depends" . Thats it. Nothing more. I got so mad he didnt give more info...cause he does know it.


Anyway, i agree with what kind of arena we are talking about. Having a IC good up to 1000hp is no good if our block cant go there. Buy a stronger block and then i can understand. But then you are talking about a whole different bracket of power, money, power, speed, etc and a lot will change.