Where to start with these codes. Need Help.

Winfaulker

New Member
Apr 2, 2009
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So I mentioned some of this in another thread already, but since I now have questions specific to diagnosing some code, I figured I would start a new thread. So hear is the situation. Just picked up this beauty and I'm still working out all the kinks. This thing CONSUMES fuel. I filled it up last week, and after only 55 miles it is already below the half line. It also runs like crap when cold, backfires out the intake (I'm thinkin lean but confused) misfires, but idles OK. Runs good after it gets warm. Doesn't seem to get too hot though, all I have is the stock gauge but it never gets higher than 2 notches on it, even when sitting in traffic.:shrug: So I dumped the codes today. KOEO- 14 Ignition Profile pickup erratic. Thats all for KOEO or Continuous. Engine running I got three codes. 21,41,and 91
21-Coolant temp out of range
41-Lean fuel mixture
91-o2 sensor problem fuel pressure out of range of injectors out of balance.

My timing light took a **** on me so I don't know the timing, I am gonna pick a new one up tonight. Before I start throwing parts at it, like o2 sensors, I just wanted to see where some of you more experienced guys thought I should start... Thanks:SNSign:
 
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Code 14 - Ignition pickup (PIP) was erratic – the hall effect sensor in the distributor is failing. Bad sensor, bad wiring, dirty contacts.

The PIP is a Hall Effect magnetic sensor that triggers the TFI and injectors. There is a shutter wheel alternately covers and uncovers a fixed magnet as it rotates. The change in the magnetic field triggers the sensor. They are often heat sensitive, increasing the failure rate as the temperature increases.

The PIP sensor is mounted in the bottom of the distributor under the shutter wheel. In stock Ford distributors, you have to press the gear off the distributor shaft to get access to it to replace it. Most guys just end up replacing the distributor with a reman unit for about $75 exchange

Code 21 – ECT sensor out of range. Broken or damaged wiring, bad ECT sensor.
Note that that if the outside air temp is below 50 degrees F that the test for the
ECT can be in error.


The ECT sensor has absolutely nothing to do with the temperature gauge. They are
different animals. The ECT sensor is normally located it the RH front of the engine in
the water feed tubes for the heater.

The ACT & ECT have the same thermistor, so the table values are the same

ACT & ECT test data:

Use Pin 46 on the computer for ground for both ECT & ACT to get most accurate
readings.

Pin 7 on the computer - ECT signal in. at 176 degrees F it should be .80 volts

Pin 25 on the computer - ACT signal in. at 50 degrees F it should be 3.5 volts. It is
a good number if the ACT is mounted in the inlet airbox. If it is mounted in the lower
intake manifold, the voltage readings will be lower because of the heat transfer.

Voltages may be measured across the ECT/ACT by probing the connector from
the rear. A pair of safety pins may be helpful in doing this. Use care in doing it
so that you don't damage the wiring or connector.

Here's the table :

50 degrees F = 3.52 v
68 degrees F = 3.02 v
86 degrees F = 2.62 v
104 degrees F = 2.16 v
122 degrees F = 1.72 v
140 degrees F = 1.35 v
158 degrees F = 1.04 v
176 degrees F = .80 v
194 degrees F = .61
212 degrees F = .47 v
230 degrees F = .36 v
248 degrees F = .28 v

Ohms measures at the computer with the computer disconnected, or at the sensor with the sensor disconnected.

50 degrees F = 58.75 K ohms
68 degrees F = 37.30 K ohms
86 degrees F = 27.27 K ohms
104 degrees F = 16.15 K ohms
122 degrees F = 10.97 K ohms
140 degrees F = 7.60 K ohms
158 degrees F = 5.37 K ohms
176 degrees F = 3.84 K ohms
194 degrees F = 2.80 K ohms
212 degrees F = 2.07 K ohms
230 degrees F = 1.55 K ohms
248 degrees F = 1.18 k ohms

Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds

88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif


See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds
(website host) for help on 88-95 wiring Mustang FAQ - Engine Information

Ignition switch wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif

Fuel, alternator, A/C and ignition wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 88-91 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Vacuum diagram 89-93 Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangFoxFordVacuumDiagram.jpg

Code 41 or 91 - O2 indicates system lean. Look for a vacuum leak or failing O2 sensor.

Code 41 is a RH side sensor,
Code 91 is the LH side sensor.

The computer sees a lean mixture signal coming from the O2 sensors and tries to compensate by adding more fuel. Many times the end result is an engine that runs pig rich and stinks of unburned fuel.

The following is a Quote from Charles O. Probst, Ford fuel Injection & Electronic Engine control:
"When the mixture is lean, the exhaust gas has oxygen, about the same amount as the ambient air. So the sensor will generate less than 400 Millivolts. Remember lean = less voltage.

When the mixture is rich, there's less oxygen in the exhaust than in the ambient air , so voltage is generated between the two sides of the tip. The voltage is greater than 600 millivolts. Remember rich = more voltage.

Here's a tip: the newer the sensor, the more the voltage changes, swinging from as low as 0.1 volt to as much as 0.9 volt. As an oxygen sensor ages, the voltage changes get smaller and slower - the voltage change lags behind the change in exhaust gas oxygen.

Because the oxygen sensor generates its own voltage, never apply voltage and never measure resistance of the sensor circuit. To measure voltage signals, use an analog voltmeter with a high input impedance, at least 10 megohms. Remember, a digital voltmeter will average a changing voltage." End Quote

Testing the O2 sensors
Measuring the O2 sensor voltage at the computer will give you a good idea of how well they are working. You'll have to pull the passenger side kick panel off to gain access to the computer connector. Remove the plastic wiring cover to get to the back side of the wiring. Use a safety pin or paper clip to probe the connections from the rear. The computer pins are 29 (LH O2 with a dark green/pink wire) and 43 (RH O2 with a dark blue/pink wire). Use the ground next to the computer to ground the voltmeter. The O2 sensor voltage should switch between .2-.9 volt at idle.

Note that all resistance tests must be done with power off. Measuring resistance with a circuit powered on will give false readings and possibly damage the meter. Do not attempt to measure the resistance of the O2 sensors, it may damage them.

Testing the O2 sensor wiring harness
Most of the common multimeters have a resistance scale. Be sure the O2 sensors are disconnected and measure the resistance from the O2 sensor body harness to the pins on the computer.

The O2 sensor ground (orange wire with a ring terminal on it) is in the wiring harness for the fuel injection wiring. I grounded mine to one of the intake manifold bolts

Make sure you have the proper 3 wire O2 sensors. Only the 4 cylinder cars used a 4 wire sensor, which is not compatible with the V8 wiring harness.

Replace the O2 sensors in pairs if replacement is indicated. If one is weak or bad, the other one probably isn't far behind.

If you get only code 41 and have changed the sensor, look for vacuum leaks. This is especially true if you are having idle problems. The small plastic tubing is very brittle after many years of the heating it receives. Replace the tubing and check the PVC and the hoses connected to it.
A secondary problem with only a code 41 is for cars with an intact smog pump and cats. If the tube on the back of the heads clogs up the driver’s side, all the air from the smog pump gets dumped into one side. This excess air upsets the O2 sensor calibration and can set a false code 41. The cure is to remove the crossover tube and thoroughly clean the insides so that there is no carbon blocking the free flow of air to both heads.
 
Thanks j!

So i guess I might as well replace the distributor... That takes care of 14

For the ECT- It was probably about 50 something outside, very windy, I also have a BBK CAI kit, so I am thinking the combination of these things could have given a false reading. Do I test the voltage when it is hot? is that what you mean by ECT signal in. at 176 degrees F it should be .80 volts?

As for the o2 sensors, I would assume you recomend testing the harnesses and sensors b4 just replacing them, or should I just replace the sensors and see if the code goes away?

Thanks
 
Thanks j!

So i guess I might as well replace the distributor... That takes care of 14

For the ECT- It was probably about 50 something outside, very windy, I also have a BBK CAI kit, so I am
thinking the combination of these things could have given a false reading. Do I test the voltage when it is hot?
Is that what you mean by ECT signal in. at 176 degrees F it should be .80 volts?

As for the o2 sensors, I would assume you recomend testing the harnesses and sensors b4 just replacing
them, or should I just replace the sensors and see if the code goes away?

Thanks

If the engine was up to operating temp when the codes were dumped, the Engine Coolant Temperature sensor could be faulty.
Testing the ECT sensor while the engine is hot is the most accurate way to do it. You can either measure the voltage across the sensor terminals by back probing the connector while the sensor is connected. and the engine is running. Or you can disconnect the harness connector and measure the resistance directly across the sensor connector pins. That eliminates the need to have the engine running and the hazards of working on a running engine.

Normally I would recommend replacing the O2 sensors. Occasionally, someone will replace the sensors and still have the 41/91 codes. That is why the tech note includes instructions on testing the wiring.
 
Ok, so I popped in a new dizzy, she starts up good, and idles nicely. When the car is warmed up it will sometimes have some very minimal surge, but it is very little. The car has good sized cam in it, it seems to idle very well to me.

Replaced the ECT as well. KOEO codes clear now only 11

It drives much better now, but still super rich, I even bumped up the timing to about 18 degrees.

Still have the KEOR 41/91(surely this is where the mileage issue is, these are also the only codes) and I was doing some reading on the forum leading me to believe it is most likely not the sensors. It has a stock FPR and I feel this might be the problem, maybe even a dirty fuel filter. I have not gotten around to testing the o2 sensors yet, I have a couple questions first.

1) to test the voltage at the computer, I should let the car run like normal, everything plugged up?

2) To test resistance the car is off(obviously), and sensors unplugged?

I just wanna make sure I don't mess anything up. I also only have a digital meter, will it work to perform these test?

Thanks
 
1) to test the voltage at the computer, I should let the car run like normal, everything plugged up?

2) To test resistance the car is off(obviously), and sensors unplugged?

I just wanna make sure I don't mess anything up. I also only have a digital meter, will it work to perform these test?

Thanks

1.) yes.
2.) Unplug the sensors and do not attempt to measure the sensor resistance. Only measure the resistance of the wiring between the harness under the car and the computer.

Using a digital meter to measure O2 sensor output voltage:
Some digital meters have a bar graph under the digits on the display. If yours does, that may be OK. If it does not, then you probably won't get accurate readings. Most digital meters averages the high and low readings to give you a voltage reading.

A digital meter will be fine for the resistance tests.
 
Ok, so I checked the HEGO ground, it was good. It is mounted to the back of the head along with that steel braided frame ground. Checked 29 and 43. it was hard to get an accurate reading with the dmm.. I think they were good though... the guy i bought it from said it had fairly new 02s and it did pass emissions a few months ago. Reset the computer and dumped the codes again.

Got a new continuous memory code- 15. don't know what this is... EDIT: I now know what this code is... Why would it suddenly show up? I was very gentle with the PCM, could I have messes something up?

Did KEOR test, 21 was back, then 41/91

disconnected battery, reset computer, and I unplugged the vacuum off the fuel pressure regulator, plug the vacuum line(trying to add more FP to see if it does anything.

15 still showed up KOEO

only 41 KOER

91 & 21 gone.

note: when i ran the codes the first time, the motor was dead cold, i did not warm it up... could this cause a false 21? then gave it go away after it is warm?
 
could the code 15 show up since the car hasn't really run at all since last dumping codes?

ground has been unplugged for a while, I'm gonna drive for a little and see if the 15 is still there.

Anyone got any info for my other situation above? Thanks
 
Code 21 – ECT sensor out of range. Broken or damaged wiring, bad ECT sensor.
Note that that if the outside air temp is below 50 degrees F that the test for the
ECT can be in error.

The ECT code will often go away once a cold engine warms up...

Code 41
If you get only code 41 and have changed the sensor, look for vacuum leaks. This is especially true if you are having idle problems. The small plastic tubing is very brittle after many years of the heating it receives. Replace the tubing and check the PVC and the hoses connected to it.
A secondary problem with only a code 41 is for cars with an intact smog pump and cats. If the tube on the back of the heads clogs up the driver’s side, all the air from the smog pump gets dumped into one side. This excess air upsets the O2 sensor calibration and can set a false code 41. The cure is to remove the crossover tube and thoroughly clean the insides so that there is no carbon blocking the free flow of air to both heads.

Code 15 - No Keep Alive Memory power to PCM pin 1 or bad PCM (Memory Test
Failure). The voltage to the Keep Alive Memory (KAM) is missing (wiring problem)
or the KAM is bad. The KAM holds all of the settings that the computer "learns" as
it operates and all the stored error codes that are generated as a result of
something malfunctioning while the engine is running. Use a voltmeter to check
the voltage to the pin 1 on the computer - you should always have 12 volts. No
constant 12 volts = bad wiring. If you do always have the 12 volts, then the KAM is
bad and the computer is faulty.

If the computer has to "relearn" all the optimum settings every time it powers up,
the initial 5-30 minutes of operation may exhibit surges, poor low speed performance,
and rough idle.

Note that some aftermarket chips will cause code 15 to set. Remove the chip,
clear the codes and retest.


Before replacing the computer, remove the battery ground cable for about 20
minutes. This will clear all the codes. Retest after several days of running. If the 15
code is gone, then don't worry about it. If it is still there, then you get to do some
troubleshooting.

Wiring diagrams for the proper model years are next…


See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2
Birds (website host) for help on 88-95 wiring Mustang FAQ - Engine Information

Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds
88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif


http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif
 
Gonna check for vac leaks tomorrow, PCV is good, i checked that and all the other intake vac lines...

So now that I was able to trick the code 91 to go away, where should I go next? Is it likely the regulator or something else?

I noticed the pass side bolt that screws the air pump pipes to the back of the head was a little loose, i tried to tighten it and it seems like it is stripped. it is only a very little loose, could this cause a 41?

thanks
 
Gonna check for vac leaks tomorrow, PCV is good, i checked that and all the other intake vac lines...

So now that I was able to trick the code 91 to go away, where should I go next? Is it likely the regulator or something else?

I noticed the pass side bolt that screws the air pump pipes to the back of the head was a little loose, i tried to tighten it and it seems like it is stripped. it is only a very little loose, could this cause a 41?

thanks

A defective fuel pressure regulator would affect both sides of the engine. You would get both 41 and 91, not just one of them

Leaking air from the Thermactor Air System (smog pump) could be a problem.
 
A defective fuel pressure regulator would affect both sides of the engine. You would get both 41 and 91, not just one of them

Leaking air from the Thermactor Air System (smog pump) could be a problem.

Ok that makes sense.

what I am still stuck on is why, when the vacuum is hooked to the regulator, I then get both 41 and 91. With the vacuum off and plugged, regulator unplugged, i get only a 41.
 
Ok that makes sense.

what I am still stuck on is why, when the vacuum is hooked to the regulator, I then get both 41 and 91. With the vacuum off and plugged, regulator unplugged, i get only a 41.

Possible thermactor air system problem (see the code 41/91 test path), possible problem in the wiring harness. Ohm out the harness or borrow and analog meter to measure the O2 sensor voltage according to the code 41/91 test path instructions.

In other words, do all of the code 41/91 test path instructions before getting stumped. One thing at a time makes troubleshooting much simpler.