Dyoct said:Where have you seen $3,000 in dealer cash? The highest amount in dealer cash was $1,000 in December to help in the leadership race with Chevy, which Ford won on the retail side, but Chevy had more fleet sales for a total sales volume over Ford. "More Americans choose Chevy?" Yeah maybe more American businesses and police departments, but for the average buyer, more Americans chose Ford. You do drive a good point, Ford is trying to keep off the incentives and sell the product, because in the end, that affects resale value, one thing that customers and former customers are harking on, poor resale value. You want $10K off your pony? Fine, then don't bitch when in a few years you get dick on your trade or when you try to sell.Someone posted in the talk section that they bought a Stang at a great price due to dealer cash. I thought he said $3K, but I could have read it wrong, maybe the $3K was his total discount including the dealer cash.
Don't be so high and mighty on Ford scaling down fleet sales. Ford played the fleet game for 30+ years, so limiting fleet sales is new found religion @ Ford.
And YES I want $10K off my Pony. Buying a GT @ $20K and having it worth $10K 5 years from now is a hell of a better deal than paying $30K for it and having it worth $15K in 5 years.
Dyoct said:One dealer even said "I won't be that greedy, I'll only ask for five (grand) over sticker." My response, "the entire marketing strategy for this vehicle is AFFORDABLE PERFORMANCE, please don't make that hard work all for nothing and burn our most loyal of customers, the enthusiasts," and hung up. I think I've said this before, let he who is with deep pockets make the first deal, the rest of us can wait for MSRP
Ford needs to nuke about 80% of their dealers.
Your dealers killed the T-Bird with their $5 - $10K AMVs.
They have completely screws up Ford GT sales with their $50K to $100K AMVs
Have screwed up 05/06 Mustang sales with their AMVs to the point that for the last 7 months the S-197 Mustang is selling in lower #s than the old SN-95.
And now history will repeat itself for a 4th time with the GT-500.
As fast as the hard working people @ FoMoCo are bailing water out of the sinking ship, your dealers are drilling new holes in the boat.
How long till we get msrp? (estimate)
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I think there are enogh people who just want "the hot car" to keep demand hot, and those people have some pretty deep pockets. Ford can spew all this afordable preformance stuff all they want, all dealers care about their bottom line and you can bet they will take all they can get. Still, I got on a list last summer, and if they call me I will be ready and I'll pay over MSRP, how much I don't know but I know it will hurt. I was days away from buying a '68 Fastback when I herd about this car, I have wanted a Mustang all my life and this car is worth the wait.
I do think Ford is in an interesting position, lagging sales, plant closings, layoffs, and one of the hottest cars on the market in the Mustang and the GT500 on the horizion, I think it will effect the production numbers of the GT500. I think the 2nd year might be slowed if Dodge gets the Chalenger out and Chevy gets the Camero out, more retro muscle.
I do think Ford is in an interesting position, lagging sales, plant closings, layoffs, and one of the hottest cars on the market in the Mustang and the GT500 on the horizion, I think it will effect the production numbers of the GT500. I think the 2nd year might be slowed if Dodge gets the Chalenger out and Chevy gets the Camero out, more retro muscle.
I spoke with SVT directly today as well as the Ford Rep for a local dealer.
Production will be 7500 for the 07 GT500. Orders will start to be taken between March and June. I got the feeling it was more towards March. Was also told that ANY dealer can order this car. It's not just SVT dealers. And that they are allocating 1 car per dealer as long as each dealer orders 1. They both said $40 to $44 sticker
My dealer ask if I wanted to put money down, I said are you going to sell at MSRP? They said yes. I said how much down? $1000.
I'm from a small town so I guess I got lucky.
Production will be 7500 for the 07 GT500. Orders will start to be taken between March and June. I got the feeling it was more towards March. Was also told that ANY dealer can order this car. It's not just SVT dealers. And that they are allocating 1 car per dealer as long as each dealer orders 1. They both said $40 to $44 sticker
My dealer ask if I wanted to put money down, I said are you going to sell at MSRP? They said yes. I said how much down? $1000.
I'm from a small town so I guess I got lucky.
I would ask for a detailed contract in writing, complete with discosures of there factory allocation and projected delivery dates. They could just keep your money and wait till the car is not as hot as it is now. There will be dealers all over the country trying to buy the allocations of the little country dealers at over sticker when this car first comes out. Most dealers are still having some troubles getting regular GT's and V6 cars.
I am looking at the 2-10-06 FDNB and last job for 06 is
6/2/06 and job one for 2007 is 6/5/06. Also final order dates for 2006 mustangs is 4/5/06 and the order bank opens for the 2007 model mustangs 3/13/06. I am not sure how these dates effect the Shelby, but since there are built on the same line I am not expecting to see any till mid June, most likely late June early July for my region.
I am looking at the 2-10-06 FDNB and last job for 06 is
6/2/06 and job one for 2007 is 6/5/06. Also final order dates for 2006 mustangs is 4/5/06 and the order bank opens for the 2007 model mustangs 3/13/06. I am not sure how these dates effect the Shelby, but since there are built on the same line I am not expecting to see any till mid June, most likely late June early July for my region.
Just to clarify. Not "every dealer" will be able to order one. Every dealer will be eligible to join a new SVT certification program. What the new SVT requirements consist of are yet to be announced to the dealer network. After which, it is up to every single dealer to decide if they want to partake in the new program, invest capital by purchasing specialty equipment, meeting facility requirements, training service techs and sales staff. It could be relatively simple as "sign this form, return to Ford Motor Company, wait for your new SVT certificate in the mail." Or it could be "spend $10,000 to purchase the following Rotunda tools....., have two service technicians attend the following training at the following date, have four sales consultants certified 100% by this date."
From how many dealers end up being in the program will naturally affect how allocation is determined. If only 1,000 dealers partake, well then hey divide whatever the final amount, 7,200? 7,500? 10,000? by that network based on criteria such as former SVT certification? Presidential Award winners? Mustang Share of Nation? Etc....
Thing is, as mentioned, the new program hasn't been rolled out. Dealers are getting nervous, and everyday one is asking "hey is SVT up and running? What do I need to do?"
caveat empor
From how many dealers end up being in the program will naturally affect how allocation is determined. If only 1,000 dealers partake, well then hey divide whatever the final amount, 7,200? 7,500? 10,000? by that network based on criteria such as former SVT certification? Presidential Award winners? Mustang Share of Nation? Etc....
Thing is, as mentioned, the new program hasn't been rolled out. Dealers are getting nervous, and everyday one is asking "hey is SVT up and running? What do I need to do?"
caveat empor
Do I think this car will sell better than the '03/'04? Yes, definately. How much better I couldn't say though. I wouldn't automatically expect them to be sitting on dealers lots a year later, this isn't the '03/'04, it's a completely different animal, Shelby's name and the relatively new body style (compared to the '03 Cobra's basically 8 year old body style when that came out) will really help sales. There are three big things that I think will really decide how this thing sells. Dealer markups, insurance prices, and the possibility of a Challenger and Camaro on the horizon. I will be watching them closely to make my decision on if I will pay over MSRP to get one now, or wait until later.
03 SVT VERT -- If you are planning to buy, why not wait a few months and then pay MSRP?? Plenty of these cars will be built. It will take twenty years for these cars to appreciate in value!! Just too many produced....Look at the 2000 COBRA R -- Sold for almost $60,000.00 brand new -- now $40,000.00 -- only 300 produced!!!
mark95-0051 said:
Read what I said closer. I might wait, but I might not. It all depends on how the car seems like it will sell. There is a lot more interest in this new car than there was the '03/'04 and they are making less cars than the '03. I'm sure a lot of people will be waiting to pick one up at or below MSRP. I remember when I wanted a Viper when they first came out I put my name on a list in 1992, it took until 1994 (or about 3,000 cars later) to finally get one at MSRP, and that was a $55,000 car. I wouldn't count on tons of new Cobras with the options I want just sitting around a few month later. I just think I better be willing to pay maybe $5,000 over MSRP if I really want this car when it's new in the color and options that I want. You guys can wait and hope, but I'm not a gambling man, if I see the one I want I'll buy it even if it is a few grand over MSRP, unless I'm really sure it follows the '03/'04's pattern.
Im with you on this one SVT Vert, I dont see the demand cooling much considering this is a two year run, better to get in early, maybe take a hit, than to miss the boat entirely. I am sure there are a bunch of people like me that put off a new car (In my case a 2005 Mustang GT) to wait for this car. Considering that the 2008 might just be tha last car Shelby ever has a hand in making doesnt that make it just as attractive as a 2007? I dont see how waiting means getting one at MSRP. Still If I get priced out of this at least theres the Challenger to look forward to.
markham51
Founding Member
There are approx 4600 Ford dealers in the US and Canada. If Ford produces between 7500 and 10000 units per year that is only 2 per dealer no matter how you cut it. I think Ford will ship one per dealer for sure to celebrate the success of the new Mustang and to draw showroom traffic. If they don't they are idiots. The Shelby name is iconic. Demand will be HUGE! People wont be buying them for the collectability as much as they will be buying them for the "IT" factor. On top of all that, while other manufacturers are increasing the number of high performance vehicles it produces such as Chrysler with its broadening SRT line and GM with more SS and V series models every few months, Ford is going in the other direction, canceling the Adrenalin plans etc. It you are a Ford guy and want a real kick a#@ car (factory built and serviced) what are your options? Focus? Fusion? Ford 500? Crown Vic? The Mustang is the only car Ford makes that even comes close to building any excitement. The latent demand for a Ford Shelby Mustang will eclipse anything in Ford's recent memory by a wide margin. Anything less would wishful thinking.
Ford needs to follow up quickly with a Boss or Mach I version that will keep the vitality of the brand fresh. Tweek the Stang with some cool interior and exterior mods and add a few more ponies and suspension options. There is a real opportunity here to build on the Mustang success, but if they wait for the Charger and the Camaro to arrive they will have waited too long. Ford has a tendency to create decent vehicles and then sit on their butts until they get old and people stop buying them. It's no wonder they lose market share consistently year after year! They have done that with almost every top selling vehicle they have ever built. The Ranger, Crown Vic, Town Car, and Focus are examples of segment winners which Ford has left languish for too long. The Explorer, Expedition and Navigator were an unbeatable team initially...but continue to decline because Ford doesn't invest enough in engine technology and EXCITEMENT! Jeep and Tahoe and Escalade are kicking Ford's butt with more new models, better performance, better technology, more creative design and better gas mileage, and that doesn't even consider the Japanese with their better reliability. Average doesn't cut it any more. There are too many new vehicles vying for market share. Ford needs to decide on what kind of car company it needs to be or it will not be a significant player in the long term.
Ford needs to follow up quickly with a Boss or Mach I version that will keep the vitality of the brand fresh. Tweek the Stang with some cool interior and exterior mods and add a few more ponies and suspension options. There is a real opportunity here to build on the Mustang success, but if they wait for the Charger and the Camaro to arrive they will have waited too long. Ford has a tendency to create decent vehicles and then sit on their butts until they get old and people stop buying them. It's no wonder they lose market share consistently year after year! They have done that with almost every top selling vehicle they have ever built. The Ranger, Crown Vic, Town Car, and Focus are examples of segment winners which Ford has left languish for too long. The Explorer, Expedition and Navigator were an unbeatable team initially...but continue to decline because Ford doesn't invest enough in engine technology and EXCITEMENT! Jeep and Tahoe and Escalade are kicking Ford's butt with more new models, better performance, better technology, more creative design and better gas mileage, and that doesn't even consider the Japanese with their better reliability. Average doesn't cut it any more. There are too many new vehicles vying for market share. Ford needs to decide on what kind of car company it needs to be or it will not be a significant player in the long term.
Humboldt Stang
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I guess it must vary by dealer.
In September 2005, I bought my 2006 Gt off the lot for $100 less than msrp, for $27,100.
Now, I realize this isn;t the norm.
I could hear the sales manager's irate voice talking to my salesman, about how I wouldn't buy it that day unless they took something off the price.
Maybe I just got lucky, and they really wanted a sale that day.
In September 2005, I bought my 2006 Gt off the lot for $100 less than msrp, for $27,100.
Now, I realize this isn;t the norm.
I could hear the sales manager's irate voice talking to my salesman, about how I wouldn't buy it that day unless they took something off the price.
Maybe I just got lucky, and they really wanted a sale that day.
Saw my dealer tuesday (change of oil)is not a SVT dealer anymore,is getting 6 Gt500 and want $ 60 000.
Allready sold out.Another dealer is getting 3 of them
sold out but they don't know the MSRP?
The name Shelby is the selling point.This summer with the premium going around $ 4 a gallon ,i keep my 03 cobra .
Allready sold out.Another dealer is getting 3 of them
sold out but they don't know the MSRP?
The name Shelby is the selling point.This summer with the premium going around $ 4 a gallon ,i keep my 03 cobra .
Get ready to dig a bit deeper into your pockets, guys.
While most of you are clinging onto a $39,999 MSRP for the coupe, Robert Lane over at Stang Unleashed (BON) did an interview with the Mustang brand manager (March 13, 06). When asked about GT-500 pricing the answer was:
"We've already said low 40s for the coupe, we haven't yet announced the vert. It will be a while before the dealers have pricing."
While most of you are clinging onto a $39,999 MSRP for the coupe, Robert Lane over at Stang Unleashed (BON) did an interview with the Mustang brand manager (March 13, 06). When asked about GT-500 pricing the answer was:
"We've already said low 40s for the coupe, we haven't yet announced the vert. It will be a while before the dealers have pricing."
real numbers
Sorry but I think you heard wrong. The fact is a FoMoCo rep told me that every ford dealer can order at least one gt500. The large Dealers who sell vast amounts of cars and win all the different awards will get an extra 2 to 3 more. The SVT dealers will get 2 to 3 more. It's possible a large high volume SVT dealer could get up to seven or eight GT500's to sell. That's because Ford will build 10,000 2007 GT500 Mustangs. They will build at least 10,000 in 2008. Ford has 5,000 dealers nation wide. There are 2,000 Ford dealers in little hick towns that sell nothing but pickups who could care less about a dang mustang gt500. The thing is: He can sell one if he wants. I bet l lot of those 2000 dealers would love to sell a vehicle for sticker price.From my past experences, I've seen lightning pickups, Cobra mustangs ,svt focus and svt contours start selling at higher than msrp prices only to sell for x-plan prices in six months. I 've bought three of those vehicles for x-plan prices. 2 lightnings and 1 Cobra mustang. Try to trade them back in a year or so later. You'll be lucky get half of what you paid for it. Why? because American cars arn't worth what they sell for. Sorry but it's true! *** cars sell for sticker price because they are worth it. When you trade one in or sell it you'll get top dallor. No I don't work for Toyota or Honda. I love American Pony cars.In closing I remember when Chevy announced the SS454 pickup was coming out in the early 90's . People acted like they are now with the GT500. I knew 3 people who cross this great nation ( all of who have lots of money ) buying up and paying way over sticker price for SS454 pickups and hoping to made huge money selling to the highest bidder. What a FLOP !! That P.O.S. truck was selling for below wholesell prices in six months. Those guys lost huge! History will repeat itself here except the Gt500 is a nice car! later
Sorry but I think you heard wrong. The fact is a FoMoCo rep told me that every ford dealer can order at least one gt500. The large Dealers who sell vast amounts of cars and win all the different awards will get an extra 2 to 3 more. The SVT dealers will get 2 to 3 more. It's possible a large high volume SVT dealer could get up to seven or eight GT500's to sell. That's because Ford will build 10,000 2007 GT500 Mustangs. They will build at least 10,000 in 2008. Ford has 5,000 dealers nation wide. There are 2,000 Ford dealers in little hick towns that sell nothing but pickups who could care less about a dang mustang gt500. The thing is: He can sell one if he wants. I bet l lot of those 2000 dealers would love to sell a vehicle for sticker price.From my past experences, I've seen lightning pickups, Cobra mustangs ,svt focus and svt contours start selling at higher than msrp prices only to sell for x-plan prices in six months. I 've bought three of those vehicles for x-plan prices. 2 lightnings and 1 Cobra mustang. Try to trade them back in a year or so later. You'll be lucky get half of what you paid for it. Why? because American cars arn't worth what they sell for. Sorry but it's true! *** cars sell for sticker price because they are worth it. When you trade one in or sell it you'll get top dallor. No I don't work for Toyota or Honda. I love American Pony cars.In closing I remember when Chevy announced the SS454 pickup was coming out in the early 90's . People acted like they are now with the GT500. I knew 3 people who cross this great nation ( all of who have lots of money ) buying up and paying way over sticker price for SS454 pickups and hoping to made huge money selling to the highest bidder. What a FLOP !! That P.O.S. truck was selling for below wholesell prices in six months. Those guys lost huge! History will repeat itself here except the Gt500 is a nice car! later
351CJ said:Dyoct said:Where have you seen $3,000 in dealer cash? The highest amount in dealer cash was $1,000 in December to help in the leadership race with Chevy, which Ford won on the retail side, but Chevy had more fleet sales for a total sales volume over Ford. "More Americans choose Chevy?" Yeah maybe more American businesses and police departments, but for the average buyer, more Americans chose Ford. You do drive a good point, Ford is trying to keep off the incentives and sell the product, because in the end, that affects resale value, one thing that customers and former customers are harking on, poor resale value. You want $10K off your pony? Fine, then don't bitch when in a few years you get dick on your trade or when you try to sell.
Yeah, your right Ford really screwed up!
Now into second year of production for the new body style, no rebates (on gt's) and still selling for minimal discounts. Sounds like they really got it wrong.
The T-Bird did not die due to AMV's, it died due to lack of interest. The car only appealed to the Golf Playing Retiree's out there, and even then they couldn't put two golf bags in the trunk. Not too mention the 100lb hard top that this type of buyer could not lift off!
The Ford GT is still selling well, 8 currently sold at the dealership I work at. Last one sold for 10k over sticker.
I guess I look at the glass half full, and you look at it half empty.
Everyone always talks about the resale of Toyota's, but do they realize that this is because they have small if any rebates!! You never see people tying to get 10k off a Camry. Pay more get more on trade, or pay less and get less!
In my opinion, they should keep the Shelby on a limited 10,000 total unit production for 2 yrs.
XStanger said:351CJ said:Dyoct said:
I don't know, when I bought my Lexus I got $2,500 off sticker and I could trade it in now for the new version of the exact same SUV with very little money added.
I don't think I ever got that much off a Ford, and I've had/have 12 of them (including an F-650 and F-450). None of them also kept their value as well. I don't really care since I buy based on what I like, not what I'm going to make, but the difference is interesting.
However, the one thing I do love about the Fords is I can walk into any parts shop and get replacement parts, most of the time they have them on the shelves, I tried getting a fuse for the Lexus and no auto parts stores in my area carry them (I treied four places). I have to order them straight from Lexus and pay an arm and a leg for a fuse.I'm starting to regret not buying the new Explorer if everytime something simple goes wrong I have to call the dealer for a part.
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