thoughts on fat man mcphereson strut suspension compared to MII?

[simplyJ]

I need to do something to at least trim the shock towers so keeping stock suspension is pretty much out of the question (fitting a 4.6 dohc in there) but liked the idea of the fat man mcpherson setup being able to use cobra 13" brakes and sn95 suspension parts.

I know people say that the only pros to mcpherson strut suspensions are the cost advantages... but I'm not planning on tracking the car... its a 69 vert and I just want a cruiser with a modern ride that is somewhat tuneable (my past cars have all had suspension work).

TIA

 

[simplyJ]

bump... anyone?

 

[302 coupe]

they are both equally suited for your needs. Though personally, I think the fatman kit is kinda dumb. The cobra brakes shouldn't be a deciding factor, there are big brake kits for the MII swap too. They both can have somewhat adjustable ride height and tuning characteristics. MII will require more fab to install, but its pretty simple, and you said you were gonna have to mod the towers anyway. Either way, I think you'll be happy. I never understood the mod motor swap, even the DOHC, unless its for eye candy. I'd rather cut the towers and stuff a big 557 stroker in there. Good luck.

 

[yeloxr7]

Remember that the Fatman kit requires you to purchase hubs, brake rotors and calipers and the steering rack on your own. This is on top of the near-$2000 price for their "kit".

 

[bnickel]

i wouldn't use the MII suspension on an early stang especially a vert. you think you have cowl shudder now??? wait until the MII suspension goes in. there is nothing to triangulate the front end when you remove the shock towers completely and the thin factory sheet metal frame rails were never designed to hold the weight of the entire car like the shock towers were. personally i would look at the RRS strut front end if you really want to trim the shock towers and have a more modern strut front end. the fat man kit is probably ok but by the time you get done buying all the ancillary parts you're already into RRS territory anyway. i also don't like the fact that the fat man kit uses an escort rack and pinion either, i'd stay with the stock steering system before using an escort rack

 

[samwe]

A properly done MII kit will have adequate reinforcements.
On mine we built new frame rails. My car is stiffer than anything using factory rails, except maybe something with a cage.
It drove from Seattle to Anchorage and is still straight...

 

[bnickel]

sam, your car is the exception to the rule, most people will not go to the extent you did, adding the roll cage type bars you did. without those bars you added i wouldn't trust the factory frame rails any farther than i could throw them

 

[1320stang]

I second bnickel on the RRS kit. They have the shock tower kits and the rest is pretty much a bolt in deal. They also have R&P kits as well. I figure if you're putting a 4.6 in a '69, you know you're going to spend some coin, and the Fatman and the MII kits are pretty spendy as well. I think the RRS kit probably has the least amount of modifications to install.

 

[1320stang]

You might check Reen's post up top of this forum, I think he's pretty much tried them all, well, maybe not the Fatman kit.

 

[samwe]

sam, your car is the exception to the rule, most people will not go to the extent you did, adding the roll cage type bars you did. without those bars you added i wouldn't trust the factory frame rails any farther than i could throw them

True. You saw what I did with the factory rails. They are long gone!
Consideting how teh stock stuff held up, I think bracing should be on the to do list regardless of what kit is used.

 

[DarkoStoj]

the shock towers on my 66 are notched flat, and there is a lot of room.

the 351c fits great in there with long tube headers. LOTS of room.

 

[Edbert]

Dark,
The 4.6 is larger than a 460, while a notch might get a 351C in there it wont even be close on the 4.6.

Which begs the question...WHY put a 4.6 in there? Unless you are going with an 03-04 Cobra motor (where the power is immense) I think putting a mod motor in a classic is a bad idea. They are larger and heavier than a 460, but have less displacement than a 289. I can understand the desire for EFI and cheap/plentiful over-the-counter parts, but the 5.0 meets those requirements in spades.

But to answer the actual question...
I HATE struts. Not a big fan of the short arms of the MII either but I'd take that design over the overpriced/underperforming fatman junk any day of the week.

 

[reenmachine]

You might check Reen's post up top of this forum, I think he's pretty much tried them all, well, maybe not the Fatman kit.

I have done the Fatman strut kit, actually. It's true that once you actually purchase everything you need you may as well have gotten the RRS setup, which is much better IMHO.

 

[1320stang]

That's sorta what I thought. If you didn't need the tower kit, it's all bolt in, isn't it?

 

[simplyJ]

I have done the Fatman strut kit, actually. It's true that once you actually purchase everything you need you may as well have gotten the RRS setup, which is much better IMHO.

What I don't understand is the problem with the fatman kit? sn95 spindles are inexpensive as well as the 13" brake kit. A set of good quality front struts is not exactly super expensive as well. The RRS kit looks great and is obviously much better engineered than the fat man kit, but once you add the R&P the cost skyrockets. Like I said, i'm not turning this into a track monster... just an updated cruiser w/ a little bling bling and enough power to smoke the rears. (I've got a bike for the speed cravings). I guess the escort R&P might be a sore point, but it has to be better than the stock reciprocating ball right?

 

[reenmachine]

What I don't understand is the problem with the fatman kit? sn95 spindles are inexpensive as well as the 13" brake kit. A set of good quality front struts is not exactly super expensive as well. The RRS kit looks great and is obviously much better engineered than the fat man kit, but once you add the R&P the cost skyrockets. Like I said, i'm not turning this into a track monster... just an updated cruiser w/ a little bling bling and enough power to smoke the rears. (I've got a bike for the speed cravings). I guess the escort R&P might be a sore point, but it has to be better than the stock reciprocating ball right?

You don't have to use the RRS R&P system. I'm about to use a Randall's Rack with the RRS suspension on the blue '68 fastback.

 

[bnickel]

I guess the escort R&P might be a sore point, but it has to be better than the stock reciprocating ball right?

personally i would rather use the stock worm gear box than an escort rack. you'll lose a bunch of turning radius with the escort rack plus IMO it's too weak for a front heavy stang. the tie-rods are about as big around as my pinkie, they look they would bend just trying to turn the car.

 

[LUCAFU1]

are you sure a 4.6 weighs more then a 460? if you find yourself a early lincoln motor with a teksid block (aluminum) they youll be straight. I love dohc (i love my cobra ). a blown 4.6 that is built is 10 times better then a 5.0
You dont need a aftermarket block (they can handle 1000-1500 hp stock) all you would need is a forged crank, rods and pistons. stock heads flow great, and get a cobra (NA) intake. its expensive and harder to work on but if you have the time and money then do it.
I was really close to buying a lincoln engine with harness and ecu for $800 but i need room for a turbo so i wont.

just my opinion. Btw my cobra motor is make close to 550 at the wheels and thats not including a 75 shot i have on it. some guys have made over 700 at the wheels with a KB blower, some have swapped to an older cobra intake and put a turbo(s) on it and made 1k at the wheels. my buddy with a forged SOHC 4.6 put a vortech on it and made 585 at the wheels (cams and ported stock heads).

yeah they suck N/A without alot of work but blown they kick ass. Also if you dint want to run a computer you could get a sullivan intake and throw a carb on it.

ok thats my pr0-4.6 speach =)

 

[65ShelbyClone]

are you sure a 4.6 weighs more then a 460?

They don't, they're just similar in size.

I've entertained the idea of a 4.6 quad cam, but i'll have to wait until I have that winning lotto ticket in hand. Then I'd big bore and destroke it to ~4L and see how high I could spin it just for kicks.

Annyway, I'd get the MII front end before struts.

 

[Edbert]

I just went and looked it up. I am going to recind the 460 claim, the 4.6SOHC weighs the same as an FE but not a 385 series.

I also said that if you are talking about a blown Cobra motor then I understand the reason for the swap. If you are talking about a NA Cobra the decision is tougher but the 4V heads, forged crank, 6-bolt mains, and aluminum block are still pretty cool. I owned a 97 Cobra for about 100 months and loved it. I just question the retrofitting of a 4.6-2V even with a blower into a classic. For the same money you can beat the power and save weight with other engines, and not have to compromise the rigidity of the chassis or the handling to fit it in.

The reciprocating ball steering blows, no argument there. But the short/long upper/lower control arm is a good design. With the Shelby drop, some quality components, shocks/springs, and a set of roller perches these old cars can handle themselves rather well. Leave the struts on your mom's Camry.