Am I the only one who thought...

[GT Dave]

their stock Mustang GT was almost more of a quick luxury car than a muscle car, was it just too tame? Don't get me wrong I loved my GT from the day I took possession of it, but it was too civil. It didn't have the raw muscle car feel at all.

I fixed that two weeks ago by adding an intake and flashing a new tune. WOW this is how these cars need to come from Ford. The manners of the car have changed completely. Going through the gears is intoxicating! I'm in love with it 5X more than before.

BTW it is a C&L race intake and a SCT-X cal 2 with a tune from Brenspeed.

Thanks for reading my rant!

 

[anticubicle]

In stock trim, it's definitely too tame for my tastes.

 

[gt06]

In stock trim, it's definitely too tame for my tastes.

+1

Let the modding begin!

 

[300bhp/ton]

Guess it all depends on your slant on things really.

On one hand old school muscle cars had crap brakes and handling as a rule and a moutain of torque and skinny wheels to deploy.

Hence they felt rather raw.

But also these where cars of the 60's & 70's. Older cars, muslce or other (hatch, sedan, etc.) where all noiser and less comfortable than todays regular cars.

So yes the s197 maybe tame, but by comparison it's also the most powerful and fastest non-special or limited edition Mustang ever produced with the best handling and braking ability.

If you got in a stock 1982 Mustang LX and then jumped into a new s197 sure it'd feel more refined and relaxed but I don't really think it would appear tame by comparison.

 

[DarkFireGT]

I agree. More refined, definitely. Tame, not at all. Of course mods make them better, but they're not tame in comparison to previous GT's.

 

[welchy]

300bhp/ton & DarkFireGt, I see your point and as I have never driven a Mustang GT until the S197 so I cannot and will not argue. This being said, I recently had to put the stock tune and intake back on my car and I have to say I really forgot what it was like stock. When I first drove it I did like its power and handling, but once I put on a CAI and a Brenspeed tune . These are great cars, but they can be made so much better by mods.

 

[PUNISHER RACING]

From day one you could tell it was built on a LS platform, it was a LS in hiding. I agree screw the warranty they won't fix anything so let the modding begin. It reminds me of the old fox car days you really shouldn't be hacking it apart but who cares its still a mustang. This car actually brings back old memories as I go installing my 3.73's and a cold air kit with Flowmasters its just a ritzy foxbody.

 

[blacksheep06]

Stock is just flat boring from the exhaust note to the looks. It's still a great car from the factory and a bargain, but I would never buy one if I had to keep it stock.

 

[DarkFireGT]

Stock is just flat boring from the exhaust note to the looks. It's still a great car from the factory and a bargain, but I would never buy one if I had to keep it stock.

Really? So what would you drive if you had to keep it stock for the same or less money that you would enjoy more? Just curious.

 

[blacksheep06]

Really? So what would you drive if you had to keep it stock for the same or less money that you would enjoy more? Just curious.

I believe I would enjoy a 350 z more in stock trim than a mustang. Even though my mind was pretty much set on a new mustang I did briefly look into a 350z. This is my second mustang gt and it is the sound of offroad exhaust that made my choice a no brainer.

Offroad exhaust with flowmasters is what won me over with mustangs years ago.

But if I had to put up with the weak sounding stock exhaust and the 4x4 suspension then I would be forced to look at other cars.

 

[I101]

Stock is just flat boring from the exhaust note to the looks. It's still a great car from the factory and a bargain, but I would never buy one if I had to keep it stock.

I disagree that the stock S197 looks and sounds boring. When the '05 came out, I traded in my '02 because the '05 was just a better car all the way around: more power, better handling, and a better interior. I also liked the fact that Ford cleaned up the styling by giving it a retro look without the fake scoops, and even gave buyers a spoiler delete option.

I'm perfectly content to leave my '05 stock. I don't plan to take my car to the track, and the 300hp is fine for me (and a big improvement over the '02). And even after three years with my '05, I still get lots of questions and jealous looks from drivers of any number of those "sport sedans" out on the market. Now those cars are boring.

I think Ford did a great job of giving us a car that was terrific stock, but left plenty of room for the modding crowd to have their fun. Best of both worlds to me, and the sales numbers the last few years seem to back it up.

 

[FFR snakeman]

want to feel raw take this beast for a spin

 

[welchy]

No doubt. Talk about

 

[welchy]

I101, put a CAI and a tune on it and then tell me you're happy with the stock hp. I'd be willing to say you won't be.

 

[I101]

I101, put a CAI and a tune on it and then tell me you're happy with the stock hp. I'd be willing to say you won't be.

Maybe not, but then again, at what point do you start to ask yourself: how much is enough? As it is, I can't get my car into 4th gear for long before I'm speeding, and I can't wind it out without running seriously afoul of state driving laws. And I live in VA, where civil driving penalties went through the roof this year (Google "virginia driving fees" and you'll see what I mean).

I know how easy it is to get addicted to hp. I found that out when I traded in an Acura Integra for an '02 GT. I can't imagine ever driving a four banger again. But I've reached the point where I'm happy with what I've got. Since I'm not going to the track, adding more hp would just be frustrating to have without a place to use it legally....or maybe I'll just do what the guy in the Shelby commercial did, and take it over to Germany!

 

[bluecar]

From day one you could tell it was built on a LS platform, it was a LS in hiding.

+1. When I rented a V6 convertible I could tell the difference immediately. Its a far fetched analogy, but I felt I traded a Fairmount for an LS! IMO it was silly to keep piling and heaping more horses and improvements on a weak platform. High time in '05.

 

[SpartaPerformance]

I agree with refined. Tame?? No Way...on the throttle she snarls and growls just like a muscle car!!! Of course opening up her lungs and retraining her makes her a totally new animal in stock trim she's very muscle car also.

 

[PUNISHER RACING]

Say what you will but anyone that has owned a fox car or SN platform car will tell you that this new car is a bit on the fluff. And the chassis makes all the difference in the world. I know Ford kind of dropped the ball on a few things but this car is actually kind of European-esque it feels like a cheaper beemer. I mean its a mustang that actually rides nice is quiet, hauls ass and stops and steers pretty well. I feel like I actually got my moneys worth with it , in fact I actually regret putting her in storage so early. I want my car back damnit!!!!!

 

[GT Dave]

This topic went way away from what I was thinking about. I really was not knocking the s195 Mustangs, in fact I love it, other than the mild tune that Ford put on it. Nor was I comparing it with all around muscle car performance though most of my experience with higher hp engines were in older cars from the 60s and early 70s, that we were driving in the late 70s and 80s. Like a friends 67 Fairlane that we stuffed a built 428 cobra jet into. It did 12s in the 1/4 on skinny 60 series bi-ply firestones. Too bad he got married and sold it before he got slicks for it. So many Camaros, Novas, Chevells, GTOs, GTXs, too many to list but you get the idea. Sure they could not corner very well and they needed a lot more space to get back to 0 from 60 mph than newer do cars but that isn't what I was getting at.

I guess my point was more about CPUs controlling and limiting the hp and when you can and can't have it, to help the manufactures protect their warranty. Realistically the CPU does a lot more than that but, until I loaded the new tune dumping the clutch at 3k rpms and standing in it left me disappointed with the resulting burnout, it was ok but I knew there had to be a lot more than what the CPU was letting me have. I understand that a good burnout isn't everything (although it is fun admit it) but if the CPU pulls power then when else is it taking control away from you.

I thank the gods of HP that companies like SCT and the others are there to give us a choice in performance. If you are happy with stock performance, good for ya. Me I'll take a new tune and a CIA to go!

 

[LV51FER]

I think the point here is that in the 60's, muscle cars were something special in terms of power even if the handling and brakes left much to be desired. They also tended to come in war paint although there were plenty of sleepers.

In the modern world, there are plenty of cars that are fast in their own right and many cars have transcended their humble roots to become fine handling cars with more than enough power to see off the old muscle cars. The Golf GTi began that revolution back in 1976 and now lighter hatchbacks packing over 200hp are commonplace.


The S197 therefore needed 300hp to remain competitive and true to it's pony car roots relative to the advancesbeing made by bread and butter cars. It wasn't so long ago, here in the UK, that 205hp Sierra Cosworths and 190hp M3s were "the ultimate" in terms of a performance car.

The S197 needed 300hp and got it but legislation was bound to make it softer. It had to be more crash friendly, legislation-friendly, safety-friendly. I think Ford did a good job because they had to appeal to a far wider audience than they ever have done in the past to make the Mustang pay for itself and assure it's future. So it makes no commercial sense to produce a hardcore muscle car and far more sense to make a 2 door coupe thaty nayone would be happy to own and drive. Looks like a Mustang, as comfortable as a Lincoln - appeals to everyone from 16-70.

The hardcore guys have a million mods out there to make their car into what the Mustang should be but this approach means there will still be a Mustang out there to buy. In perfectionist terms, it's too soft, too quiet and too heavy. In commercial terms, it's a runaway success. I think the special editions have given it a little more focus but personalising these cars has always been what the Mustang was about.

Meanwhile, even your grey-haired old granny can buy and drive one if she wants.... and why not!