2.8 To 302 Swap General Info Needed

Discussion in '1974 - 1978 Mustang II Talk & Tech' started by 1978Cobra2, Mar 25, 2014.

  1. 1978Cobra2

    1978Cobra2 Member

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    So I have posted a few other questions on another forum and I am coming up with no answers. I decided to try Stangnet because that is were most of my searches have led me.

    I am doing a 302 swap into my 78 mustang cobra ii. So far I have figured out that these cars are not exactly the easiest cars to do a swap on. I have come down to buying an engine for it in the next week or so, so I want to make sure what parts I will exactly need.

    In searching for what I need I have concluded that I am going with a 157 tooth flex plate and bell housing due to part availability. I know about the specific balance for the year of engine. Now, the oil pan? I know they are specific to the car. Can I use the stock oil pan if I use a 157t bell housing. I have heard that if I use a MII bell housing I have to get a specific oil pan witch means a specific oil pump/pickup. Also the engine mounts, they sound like a nightmare so how hard would it be to fab some up? How far would I get with the 2.8 radiator? I looked for a 302 replacement radiator for a MII and they are around 800$.

    In my never ending searches this is what I found. I figure I would ask so I can get solid answers and conformation so I don't end up with wrong parts and having to delay the project any further.

    Thank you to all who help!
     
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  2. 1978Cobra2

    1978Cobra2 Member

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    Not sure if you can edit post? Any way, I just found out that there are many different bell housings. How do I know witch one to use? I know for 157t but what are the differences? shouldn't the bolt patterns all be the same? Any helps will be appreciated. Thanks!
     
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  3. 74stang2togo

    74stang2togo I have never done anything CT worthy. :(
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    Make sure the bellhousing you get matches the rest of your combination.

    The factory II V8 flywheel (manual) and flexplate (automatic) are 141-tooth and use a special bellhousing and torque converter (automatic) or clutch set (manual).

    If you go with the newer/larger stuff, just make sure it all matches, and be aware that you may have to modify the floor to clear and may or may not be able to run headers. (Factory V8 manifolds are still out there, I have two sets in storage.)

    I know some guys have made the fox-body T5 bell fit.

    Another concern is the vintage of the engine you choose, early 302s (as well as all 289s and 351s) have a 28-oz imbalance, and the the correct balancer and flywheel/flexplate to match. The 1982+ 302 engines (if I'm remembering correctly, could be 1983), have a 50oz imbalance and need the correct parts accordingly.

    As for your radiator question, I'm not usually one to recommend AFM, but I actually wrote this article: http://Please do not link to extern...iversal-radiator-installation-mustang-ii.html I'm banned there (for saying "sammiches" too many times, no joke), which is why I don't post there anymore. The article was written based on my experience with replacing the radiator in my '76 II with a V8 and automatic.

    For engine mounts, get in touch with bstang71 on Mustangii.net. He sells rebuilt mounts, frame mounts, and motor mount rebuild kits for these cars.

    I was going to swap a V8 into my '74, but then I found my '76 that already had a V8, so it never happened, but I'd done most of the parts scrounging and the homework first. If you can find a wrecked V8 donor Ford to yank all the stuff from at once (engine, transmission, accessories) that's most of the battle right there. Then it comes down to what you're wanting, (automatic or standard, carbureted or EFI, how many gears, etc.). I'm in the middle of doing a 2.8-to-5.0 swap in a German-import '77 Ford Capri right now (the very one referenced in the radiator article above, in fact!) So I definitely know your pain, been figuring that one out myself (fox body oil pan, '95 Mustang T5, early fox flywheel and clutch set, and right now I'm trying to find a radiator to fit it well.)
     
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    Last edited: Mar 26, 2014
  4. 1978Cobra2

    1978Cobra2 Member

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    Thank you so much for the information! This is the most one person has been able to tell me! I found a junkyard about an hour away that specializes in cars from 1940-1980 so i'm hoping that I can find an old 302 MII there, if not atleast the parts I need. Do you know about the oil pan? does that still have to be changed even though I am using a different bell housing! Thanks again, you have been a great help!
     
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  5. 74stang2togo

    74stang2togo I have never done anything CT worthy. :(
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    The easiest/best oil pan to use it the II specific one, I'm not aware of it interfering with any other bellhousings.

    At the moment, in my '75, I've got a Milodon 8-qt oil pan with the stock C4 bellhousing and flexplate, had to run a 93-95 Mustang starter to clear the pan though.
     
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  6. LILCBRA

    LILCBRA Member

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    No oil pan issues concerning bellhousings per se, mainly starter location and cross member clearance. Some standard front sump pans are a bit too deep in the shallow section for the stock motor mounts to be able to sit where they are supposed to-ran into that once, it sucked. So a II oil pan is definitely the easiest way to go about it. The alternative is shimming the block side mounts in order for your pan to clear. If you do this, double check your pinion angle as it will undoubtedly affect it. It may not be a problem(?). This may also alleviate starter clearance, but I never got that far with my install years ago. Switching to a later model "mini" starter is generally a good way to go though. If you are going to be installing headers (of course, depending on the design/manufacturer), the later model starter will also give a little clearance in that respect.

    Now for your radiator question: I was able to pick up a new radiator from Autozone, probably 7 years ago now? I have not had issues with the radiator and it was definitely not $800! Just doing a search now, apparently they are no longer available from Autozone, aren't listed with Napa, Oreilly says to call the store, and Advance Auto Parts has it for $580 (wow, times they have changed!). I haven't had a V6 II in probably 25 years, so I can't really answer if the radiator would even be compatible, but I would say that if the inlet/outlet is in the right location and it is a 3 row core, it would probably suffice. If it isn't a 3 row, you may be able to have it re-cored at a local radiator shop for way less than what a new one would cost. I can tell you that the V8 radiator top hose is on the passenger side and the lower is on the driver side-that much you may already know.

    Good luck and feel free to ask any questions you may have. I'm sure someone around here will be able to answer you.
     
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  7. LILCBRA

    LILCBRA Member

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    Oh, just a side note. If you're still using the V6 axle, it should be an 8". Check your gear ratio, you may have a good one! ;) I happened across a V6 8" rear with a parts car years ago that had 3.55's. I installed a locker and it's currently in my Cobra. :)
     
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  8. 1978Cobra2

    1978Cobra2 Member

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    Thanks for all this help guys! A few more questions and i should be good! If I use a 157t bell housing will that affect the fitment of MII specific headers? Also, I found a oil pan that "fits" a MII it is a Spectre 5507. It's a lot cheaper but i'm not certain of what the right oil pan should look like. I probably will shim the mounts considering I will probably make my own. I know i have an 8in but I leaning towards 3.08 gears. One last question, how much "massaging" do you think will be done to fit non MII specific parts in? Once again thanks for the help!
     
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  9. LILCBRA

    LILCBRA Member

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    I don't think the bell will cause issues with header fitment, but I could be wrong. I guess it would really depend on starter location and header tube routing. I also can't speak to the Spectre oil pan as I have only used a stock II pan. I can tell you, speaking from memory, that a "regular" passenger car front sump pan-at least the one I had-had a slightly raised portion between the shallow end and the sump end. I guess you could call it a slight step? The II pan does not have that step. Googling images, I come up with a couple, one of a stock II pan, and one comparison of a passenger car to a II pan, the II pan is on the right.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]


    As far as anything else that is not II specific, I guess it depends on what you're looking for. There has been documented swaps of different transmissions, the mentioned oil pan issues, specific motor mounts, and exhaust is a little tight depending what you do. Other than those things, anything else wouldn't be too bad. But I will offer my standard disclaimer-there may be something I'm not thinking of. So as far as anything else that is not II specific, try to be as descriptive as you can. For instance, will Fox body shorty headers work in a II? To answer my own example in case you were wondering, from what I understand they do not work, the exit angle interferes with the body. But for whatever questions you can think of, I'm sure someone can point you in the right direction!
     
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  10. 1978Cobra2

    1978Cobra2 Member

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    Thanks a lot! That Really helps! I'm probably going to get an engine in the next week or so, I will keep every one updated of what is going on! The headers I was referring to would be the MII headman headers. I should be able to see what all needs to be modified when I sit the engine in there. Thanks again to every one, this is the most help I have found.
     
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  11. The Big Blue

    The Big Blue Member

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    Well this was helpful, I will be posting here and looking here on a regular basis, I have a 2.3 that’s coming out, and I'm putting in a 351w automatic, so as I figured as long as I make sure the trans is a match to the engine I shouldn’t have any problems with the balance, from there we'll see how it goes, oh and I'll post up my findings as well as I go.
     
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  12. LILCBRA

    LILCBRA Member

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  13. The Big Blue

    The Big Blue Member

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    So my income tax wasn't what I expected, so I'm going to have to take a step back on the motor, I'm hoping to find a good used 302\351w to put in the car, I know where there is a V6 II in a junk yard that hopefully has an 8" rear and should be a c4 trans, I'll rebuild the trans myself, can anyone tell me if the bell housing and flex-plate from a V6 will work on a V8
     
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  14. The Big Blue

    The Big Blue Member

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    Does anemone know what would be the size of the torque converter for a stock II C4? I see them listed as 10" and 11" and wonder if that's the thing I need to know or if the stock one is just a total oddball, I'm trying to decide if I want to find a stall that will fit it, or if it would be easier to modify the floor for a regular passenger car C4
     
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  15. LILCBRA

    LILCBRA Member

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    I'm fairly certain that the answer is no. The 2.8 bell will not work on a V8. A 3.8 on the other hand does iirc. There again, you would have to watch your starter location as was discussed earlier. I can't answer the converter question. I do think that a standard bell C4 will fit, it will just be tight. I could be way off though....
     
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  16. The Big Blue

    The Big Blue Member

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    OK thanks, I did find a II bell on ebay that didn't sell from a couple of months ago, I emailed the guy to see if he still has it.
     
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