2005 Mustang Dead Battery Problem??

Discussion in '2005 - 2009 Specific Tech' started by racegirl1, Jan 13, 2007.


  1. gp001

    gp001 Founding Member

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    No problems with the Optima. I think the high heat under the hood is killing the Ford batterys prematurely. Just my opinion
    #21
  2. racegirl1

    racegirl1 New Member

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    Hi all...I just wanted to say thank you for all of the great replies to my battery question. Well after reading these replies I guess I'm not the only one who has gone through the battery draining woes.

    I have another question for (gp001) and anyone else who has installed the Optima red top battery. if I decide to go the Optima battery route myself what red top battery model did you use for the 2005/06 mustang and what battery hold down kit did you buy to go with your Optima red top battery?

    Thanks
    #22
  3. red05bullitgt

    red05bullitgt Member

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    All I can say is this.. I went by both 310 stanger's recommendation and from a Ford field service engineer and find it very difficult to believe how a Field service engineer and Ford service tech could both be wrong ??? Personally speaking, It doesn't matter what kind of battery is used ? the fact is when these car's sit for more than 7-10 days ? the keep alive memory (computer) is drawing battery current 24/7 and eventually will drain the battery.. perhaps upgrading to better quality battery such as a Die Hard or Optima may hold up longer ? but never the less unless you also install a battery tender charger ? You're only going to wind up with a dead battery on your hands once again...
    #23
  4. gp001

    gp001 Founding Member

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    There really are only 2 sizes (dimensionally) of the red top Optimas. I went with the taller one (don't recall the number right now, I can look if you would like) and it fit fine. I used the factory hold down strap and heat blanket.
    #24
  5. gp001

    gp001 Founding Member

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    I don't buy the K.A.M. or the Shaker AMPs explanations. There are many cars that have those same features that never have these issues. The only unique thing these S197s are known for is the extreme under hood temps. Batterys do not like high temps and I think we are seeing a by product of that.

    Anyone care to calculate how much current draw the KAM would need to pull to down a fully charged battery over a 5 day span?
    #25
  6. celticstanger

    celticstanger New Member

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    :jaw:

    Had me going, for a second!!!

    Attached Files:

    #26
  7. celticstanger

    celticstanger New Member

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    Ok, here's something for all of us with this issue to consider/discard -

    I'd been living with my low battery for a month, when it went completely dead. Charged it last Friday night. Turned it over Sat pm, started up first time, no problem.:nice:

    Wife drove the car Tuesday, then it sat until I got home Thursday. I turn the key, and it sputters for a few seconds, before firing up. I think "WTF? I just charged this dmn battery!". Then, the stereo fires up, so I know that the wife left it on to power-down when she took the key out of the ignition and opened the door (cos, why wouldn't you, right?). SO, remembering this "Shaker Amp" theory, I decide to do nothing, other than turn the stereo off, as I pull up into the garage, once I was done driving for the night.

    Now, normally, with the battery this depleted, I'd get the same start issues the next morning. Well, I went out at 11 this morning and, wouldn't you know it, the thing fired up STRAIGHT AWAY. Having lived with the low battery for weeks before I was forced to charge it, I know that this is NOT what was happening before.

    There might really be something to this amp theory.
    #27
  8. red05bullitgt

    red05bullitgt Member

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    Perhaps you may not buy it ? but it's a proven fact thanks to 2 Ford field service engineers who personally inspected my car during a 2 week period after I agreed to let it sit at my local dealership in order to diagnose what was draining 3 different batteries in less than a 4 month period ? Therefore if engine bay heat as you mentioned is the cause ? then please explain as to what's draining these batteries after sitting between 7-10 days without the car ever being started ? and also explain why is it that I haven't experienced any further battery failures in over a year since installing a battery tender...:shrug: And Btw ? I never mentioned anything about the K.A.M draining batteries in a 5 day span..I clearly stated between 7-10 days
    #28
  9. red05bullitgt

    red05bullitgt Member

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    And don't forget about the K.A.M theory as well, In my experience it always went dead between 7-10 days from sitting but according to the field service engineers ? a fully charged battery can at times sit up to 14-30 days before the K.A.M completely drains it.. But the moment you jump it ? it fires right back up the very first time until it sits again for the same amount of time..
    #29
  10. gp001

    gp001 Founding Member

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    Well then my issue was different. I did turn off everyting (stero, radar, AC/blower controls, etc) and it still died. I woud have some mornings where it would "hesititate" (sluggish turn over) but the next morning start fine; with no charging other than driving, and driving the same distance all days.

    The battery finally gave up and would not even hold a charge overnight after a full re-charge with my trusty Craftsman charger and having ALL electronics turned off in the car.

    Once the battery gets worked by the heat it is going to give off it's charge. After you have the issue it is too late. ANY battery left to sit long enough will discharge, but a battery with issues will discharge quicker. Even brand new on a shelf a battery is giving off it's charge. If it was the KAM theroy then wouldn't every S197 experience this from day 1? Since no external variable comes into play?

    I would love to know how the Ford Techs "tested" it other than "letting it sit without starting". They should be able to test, definitively, the parasitic draw by putting an ammeter in series with everything off and eliminate sources to pinpoint the cause. Did they? IF so, scan the work order for me. I'd like to use their findings and visit Ford if that is the case.

    Anyone with an ammeter can test for this (just beware of the initial surge!). It is not rocket science. I would go out and test mine right now, but I don't want to lose my settings in my AVIC and spen the day pulling fuses to isolate.

    Can someone share with the class the actual parasitic draw findings by Ford?
    #30
  11. red05bullitgt

    red05bullitgt Member

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    The Field Service engineer did test with an ammeter during the testing GP ? and I personally don't have a problem in sending you copies of my work orders..However after scanning them into my PC ? I cannot edit my personal info from them because of outlook express so the best I can do for right now is re-type the info from the Work Orders which read, CUSTOMER STATES WHEN VEHICLE SITS FOR MORE THAN 7-10 DAYS BATTERY IS DEAD AND WILL NOT START, CHECK AND ADVISE 98 PERFORM BATTERY RUN DOWN TEST, NO COMPONENTS STAYING ON AT THIS TIME. SYSTEM POWERS DOWN COMPLETELY. BATTERY 13.58V ALT CHARGING 14.01V 162 IMFS 0.00
    #31
  12. red05bullitgt

    red05bullitgt Member

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    CUSTOMER LEAVING VEHICLE FOR FIELD SERVICE ENGINEER TO INSPECT FOR BATTERY RUN DOWN. 10 VEHICLE INSPECTED BY FSE FOR TWO WEEKS, BATTERY HELD DURING TEST NO FURTHER ACTION 162 IFMS 0.00 Rob called me and I advised him what to do. I was sidetracked when I was testing your car and I forgot to circle back to Rob and explain. It tested out at .030 to .040 amps and 12.7v Per my meter. Still looks good.
    Anyway we will see what it looks like Wed. I will be in Detroit.
    RC - FSE
    #32
  13. red05bullitgt

    red05bullitgt Member

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    So there you have it GP ? and if the battery failures were the cause of excessive engine heat ? then that still doesn't explain as to why I haven't experienced any further failures since installing an on board battery tender ? you would think if that were the cause ? then not even a battery tender would prevent the battery failures :shrug:
    #33
  14. celticstanger

    celticstanger New Member

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    I'm beginning to suspect maybe we're suffering from a combo-deal of issues, which add up to draining of the battery. Sounds like there are at least 2 fairly different examples of behaviour which result in a drained battery.
    #34
  15. red05bullitgt

    red05bullitgt Member

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    Very good point Celtic and you would think that with all these complaints concerning these battery failures ? that Ford would be able to pinpoint the causes or at least have TSB's available :shrug: Is there anybody out there who lets their Stangs sit between 10-30 days without turning the car over who hasn't experienced a dead battery issue ??? IF any of you happen to be out there ? let us hear from you...
    #35
  16. red05bullitgt

    red05bullitgt Member

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    Believe me, I don't like the idea of having to keep my Stang plugged into a battery tender every time it sits in the garage for 7 days or longer ? it's also been very frustrating trying to figure out why Ford hasn't done anything to find out why going on 2 years now..But until they do ? I don't see what other options are available :bang:
    #36
  17. gp001

    gp001 Founding Member

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    Because the relative heat varies with many variable factors: ambient air temp, driving conditions, driving duration, etc.

    If it is due to the KAM or Shaker amps explain why it does not happen to every S197, every time?
    Take my car for example:
    February 05 Purchased
    March 05 Added auto dimming mirror with Homelink
    March 05 Added hard wired Radar detector
    April 06 Added Pioneer AVIC-D2 with XM attachment and iPod attachment

    During the time from Feb 2005 to November 2006 accessories were never turned off prior to vehicle shut down, no issues experienced, sat several times 5+ days.

    November 06 Experienced first starting hesitation

    Read posts about Shaker issues, charged battery, began turning off head unit, AC, blower controls, radar, and mirror before shutting down vehicle
    Continued to experience draining issues and starting hesitations

    December 06 Replaced Ford battery with Optima. No shutting down of electronics prior to vehicle shutdown, no discharge issues. Longest sit time between starts with Optima is 6 days

    If it was due to the KAM I should have experienced issues prior to Nov 06 and I should still be experiencing issues. All S197's should be experiencing these issues since the KAM and battery are the same (no variable in the system). All modern day vehicles should experience these problems.

    One day I'll test mine to see what the draw is.

    I'm not trying to argue here. If you want to believe it is the KAM then go ahead. Draw from the KAM should be less than 75mAmps (most are around 30 mA)

    A draw of 100mA on a battery like the Optima would take 22+ days to discharge.
    A draw of 200mA would take 11+ days
    #37
  18. celticstanger

    celticstanger New Member

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    GP, I think I'm going to suck it up (as I type, I just KNOW the language filter will not like that!) and buy the Optima. Did you have fitment issues when you put yours in?

    Thanks in advance.
    #38
  19. red05bullitgt

    red05bullitgt Member

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    I know that your not trying to start an argument GP ? and I feel your frustration believe me.. I was going through it for almost a year and took my car to 3 different dealerships who tested everything from the shaker 500 Amp, to the active alarm and every fuse in the engine bay and the only conclusion the field service engineer was able to pinpoint to was the K.A.M ? does this mean that I'm satisfied ?? hell no I'm not and I still don't understand why I have to keep my Stang Plugged into an automatic tender charger in order to prevent their crappy Motorcraft batteries from going dead from sitting anywhere from just 7-10 days as it still doesn't make any sense to me at all..As for why the K.A.M doesn't drain all the S-197 Stangs ? I honestly don't know and if I did ? you would be the very first to know about it but I can tell you that I've noticed quite a few members not only from this forum but also from other Mustang forums, who've complained their batteries have also gone completely dead in the very same 7-10 day period as mine has and it seems very strange when you end up finding out how so many hundreds of other S-197 owners would complain about the very same problem as you have to the point where something like this has to be far more than just a coincidence wouldn't you think ? Now let me ask you this ? what is the longest period you've let your Stang sit since you replaced your Motorcraft battery with your Optima ? and have you experienced any further battery failures since ? anyway when you get a chance could you let me know because I'm extremely very interested and curious...:shrug: :flag:
    #39
  20. gp001

    gp001 Founding Member

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    No fitment issues at all. I used the factory hold down strap and factory thermal blanket
    #40

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