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Discussion in '2010 - 2014 Specific Tech' started by NeoConMan, Jan 24, 2009.
wow a factory s/c option would kick ass
I see you know some basic physics.
HAHA dude I've seen some of your posts about the Shelby and its hilarious how ignorant you are.
You do realize the Shelby is a whole 250lbs more than a 03/04 Cobra. A mere 250lbs gives you a roomier, smoother, and over all better ride than a 03/04 Cobra.
Also if you think the price of the car is inflated do to the Shelby nameplate you are wrong. Between inflation and the upgraded components of the car is where you get the 44k sticker price. The ADMs were between some people thinking they were going to make a quick buck with a "collectors car" and just the overall hype of the car. Now you pick up a brand new Shelby for a few grand under sticker.
Shelby had nothing to do with the car other than putting his name on it. SVT deigned every bit of that car so if you are disappointed with it be mad at SVT not Shelby.
I don't know who you are talking to 04YellowGT. If you are talking to me, I was referring to the baby shelby GT and not the SVT. I agree the SVT is worth the money. BTW, the GT500 is not truely Shelby's. Its Ford SVT's. Its just got Shelby's name on it.
why are you talking about gt500 cost vs value? if cost was the argument chevy's base model flagship car is twice the machine the GT500 is, not to mention the Z06.
but that isn't the point. the only problem i have with that car is the fact that it weighs nearly two tons and most of that is due to the big iron block 5.4 blower equipped motor. i could give two craps about price. i hate WEIGHT. weight ruins everything, stopping, going, turning, everything. in fact, its like the new camaro and challenger. it disappoints me that they weigh so much because i DO really like the cars.
better brakes don't add that much and neither does a better suspension (unless you go IRS), and with where the six speed is the weight really only has an adverse effect on the power to weight ratio (if you're going to add weight making sure its in the middle at the bottom of the car is the best place).
so pick an engine that doesn't add a crapton of weight to the car, thats all. ya know what i want? that coyote motor punched out to 5.4 or 5.8 with a couple turbos or a blower hanging off of it. if you're happy with a car that weighs around two tons, cool, awesome, i hope you enjoy it for many years.
i prefer to have a car that needs as little power as possible to scoot it down the road as fast as possible and has less weight thrown to the outside of the corner and less weight that has to be reigned in when the stoppers clamp down on the rotors.
the reason why the car got the 5.4 is simple: cost. it was cheaper to throw an engine that pretty much already existed into the car. now that the new coyote engine is coming into the picture maybe they will have a cost effective solution to get the cobra back down closer to the GT weight.
you might think i speak from ignorance and thats fine but be sure you aren't speaking from a place of blind-justification because you own a GT500.
Why are you comparing a 2 seater car that has a base MSRP of 50k to a 4 seater car that has a base MSRP of 43k, let alone the Z06 that has a base MSRP of 75k?
My first question to you is do you think the GT500 is priced fairly?
Here is what you need to understand, ALL muscle cars/pony cars are getting bigger and heavier and there is nothing you can do about it. This is do to safety reasons and also because people don’t like being crammed into a tiny car.
As for the GT500 it only weighs around 400lbs more than a GT. With that 400lbs you are getting a bigger DOHC forged motor with a supercharger, a built rearend, and a 6spd transmission. Do you realize all those upgrades I listed add weight to the car. You basically have two choices, add the weight and make good power or save the weight and be stuck with crap for power.
The Coyote motor you mention is going to add weight to the car because it’s a DOHC motor. You also wont be able to add a lot of boost either with the 11:1 cr. If you do add turbo(s) or a supercharger you are going to add weight to the car, you put forged internals you’re going to add weight, you put a beefed up transmission you are going to add weight. Do you understand what I’m trying to say now?
Now depending on how you answered the question I asked you at the beginning will determine how ignorant you are. You can’t go I want, I want, I want, I want, and then say but I won’t pay over $35k for it. That’s impractical thinking which is why they don’t make a car the suits you taste now. Also I’m not being biased on my thinkings because
I have actual facts to back up my justifications. I know the 10’ Camaro will be tipping the scales at 3800+lbs, the SRT8 Challenger is 4000+lbs and the GT500 is in between both and will destroy both in stock and modded form. I also know you can expect the 11’ GT with the Coyote motor to weigh in close to the SS Camaro. Where are facts to back up you claims?
of course, ford is selling it for what they feel it will sell for. that is fair.
ya know why? because its easier. you're right, i can't do anything about it except vote with my dollar. i won't buy 2 door sports/muscle car that weighs two tons.
those are the options on the table because the third option of having the best of both worlds requires them to be more clever OR for them to care more about the car than the dollar.
2 problems with that:
1. you have no idea how much the engine will weigh
2. the fact that it is physically smaller on the outside than the current modular engines (a good first try from ford) would indicate that it weighs less, but that is just speculation
3. the coyote is all aluminum
4. some weight additio.n is to be expected, adding weight to the tranny isn't that bad since it adds it to the best possible place to add weight.
5. 11:1 CR only matters if you want to go FI and that can ALWAYS change especially if they punch it out for a blown variant.
6. there is no way in hell the coyote will weigh anywhere near what the GT500 powerplant weighs. yay, the GT500 can POTENTIALLY make a crapton of dynoqueen power. yay, unfortunately i've dealth with cars making four digit power enough to know that well before 800rwhp comes the point where you're just a dyno/highway queen built for bragging rights.
if i wanted the best bang for the buck at the 40-50K range it'd have a vette emblem on it.
for high 20's the 2010 or 2011 GT will be well worth it.
you're demanding proof? all i see are claims coming from you. if the coyote weighs anywhere near the GT500 weight i'll definitely pick up a 2010 4.6 or the ecoboost equipped model they're talking about. if the new mustang is the same weight or close to that of the maro, charger, and gt500 then it'll be disqualified under the same clause: being a fat pig.
i only have one point: weight ruins everything. you're acting like i give two craps about price, you'd do well to move on from that talking point.
what is the weight of the new coyote, the current 4.6, and the current 5.4? surely you have these numbers to make the claims you're posting.
i'd like to know as soon as possible whether i should get the 2010 or wait till the new engines come out
Seriosuly dude you have no clue what you are talking about. My guess is you are some 16 year old that has no clue about how a company makes money.
What exactly do you drive?
No its because there is nothing they can do to keep the weight down without increasing the price. Yes there are easy ways to lower weight but its NOT CHEAP.
Once again you are wrong. There is no “clever” way to lower weight while making large amounts of hp. Yes they do care about the dollar that’s why Ford is in the financial position they are in now and the only one out of the big three that isn’t on the verge of bankruptcy.
Please explain to me a clever way of doing this since you seem to know how to?
1) Do I have exact numbers, no. Do I know it will weigh more than the current 3V, 100% yes.
2) Where the hell did you hear its physically smaller. I can tell you, you are 100% wrong on that. Its is bigger than the current 3V and is about the same size as the 5.4L Shelby motor.
3) So is the current 3V
4)Weight is weight it doesn’t matter where its at.
5) Yes and look at how many 2V, 3V and 4V that are FI that matters to a lot of people.
6) I’m never said it would weigh as much as the GT500.
HAHA I bet you’ve never even seen a car that’s made 1000rwhp in real life let alone have any knowledgeable experience with them. With the stupid **** I’ve seen you post you have no clue what you are talking about. You also must have never been to a track or even to a weekend meet. There a NUMEROUS cars that make 700-800rwhp that not only drive and race there cars on the street but go to the track all the time. Hell get on a little site called SVTP and see how many GT500s, Cobras and any other cars there are on there making 700-800 rwhp.
Then buy a Vette. What do you currently drive?
The 2010 GT makes a whole 315hp a whole 15hp more than the 09 and starts off at 28k for a base GT and 31k for a premium GT. The 2011 with the 5.0 will be in the low 30k for a base GT.
Really what claims have I made?
Well Mr. Moneybags you are the only one that doesn’t care about price and they are not going to build a 50+k Mustang GT just for you.
The GT500 motor weighs in at around 800lbs, the 3V weighs in at around 420lbs and the coyote will weigh close to 500lbs. Though nothing is confirmed on the coyote motor that’s what I’ve heard from an insider at Ford.
i disagree with this statement. "there is nothing they could do to keep weight down without increasing price because they are too lazy/uncreative/not clever enough" would probably be more accurate.
it isn't lucrative enough for them to do this. that is what everything comes down to. it isn't just about cost for us, its actually mainly about what sells the most cars while making them the most profit.
most people dont care about weight, i do. i am in the minority. i can accept that.
you dont need large amounts of hp. 400hp is just fine for me, in fact, i'd be happy with the 315-350hp especially if they could bring the weight down.
did i say i knew how? i think i just said i knew it was possible...
i'll settle for ballpark numbers that are factual.
the watercooler. got some pics? i'll believe it when i see it. also, if its the same size as the 5.4 then it has to weigh much less. unless they're using some type of aluminum that weighs as much as that cast iron stuff.
which probably means i was comparing it to the other engine that is made of that other stuff. whats it called?
make a note: this is the exact point in our conversation where you clearly indicated to me that you know crap about the subject matter.
next you'll tell me there is no difference between sprung and unsprung weight.
im talking about a production supercharged GT500 powerplant replacement.
I also know you can expect the 11’ GT with the Coyote motor to weigh in close to the SS Camaro.
which is reported at 3860lbs which is 40lbs shy of the current gt500 and 90lbs shy of the 2010 gt500.
so, is this the part where you just make up your own history for me because you dont like my opinion so far?
im sure they are. street tires on a cold nice, even. all that power is getting to the ground, totally. right off the line. from the sound of things you could make a 1000hp car hook up with DR's on a wet road.
what is your favorite dental floss?
you misunderstand, i dont want a 500hp 3000lb carbon fiber body car. well, i do but i dont think that's anywhere near possible any time soon. im just tired of car makers making cars heavier when its totally unecessary. i dont WANT 15 airbags.
i will buy a big fat heavy car only as a last resort. some people would rather have a car that weighs twice as much if it makes twice the power. i'd rather have a car that makes half the power and weighs half as much.
thats just my opinion dude. clearly, we are of different mindsets regarding this matter. you dont mind extra weight in a GT car. thats cool, i'd like to avoid it for as long as possible.
finally some useful information. 80lbs for an extra set of valves and a punched out motor? that is a compromise i could make.
i'm done with quotefests, man. you can expect singular replies from now on
Although you may not be able to add a lot of boost with an 11:1 CR.. An engine with higher compression ratio's, usually respond real well to cam upgrades.
Perhaps after doing a cam upgrade, you could then add more boost with either turbo's or supercharger's..For as long as your running a decent intercooler, you shouldn't run across any possible detonation issues..