Engine adjust roller rockers on new 393

[maxine-70]

So, I built a 393W 9 years ago and just now got around to getting the car complete enough to start. It fired right up once a fuel issue was fixed, sounded great, but I had a little valvetrain noise that I assumed was the valvetrain being a little too loose. More noticeable on the passenger side. So, I take the upper intake and valve covers off and reset everything to zero lash, plus 1/2 turn. Put it all back together, start it, and it runs terrible, popping out the exhaust, will barely accelerate. So now I assume theyre too tight.

This is the first adjustable valvetrain engine Ive ever built. I'm used to stock ford pedestals, or shaft-mount mopars. I've read so many different ways online to do this, most of them tell me to do what I did above. I'm wondering one thing: after loosening any preload on the lifters, how long does it need to sit before the plunger body in the lifter rises all the way up again. I didn't give it any time to sit with no pressure on the lifters. Id not even thought of that until reading a summit tech article saying to give it a few minutes before setting preload again. Also, I adjusted everything cold.

It's not a radical build. 393W, probe pistons, trick flow heads, retrofit lunati roller lifters, crane silver adjustable 1.6 stud rockers, ported lightning intake, and a relatively mild custom .520/.507, 212/220, 115 lobe sep cam.

As I said, it sounded great and idled/revved well, until I tried to readjust the valves a bit to quiet what sounded like a little valvetrain noise. It's not been driven at all yet. Any recommendations?

 

[Monkeybutt2000]

Did you remove the distributor?

 

[maxine-70]

Did you remove the distributor?

nothing changed but the rocker adjustment, and the upper manifold gasket

 

[General karthief]

Can you get a Bore scope ? I'd be looking to see if the valves are touching the pistons.

 

[nickyb]

I'd get someone to adjust those lifters for you, some one who has done a Ford before.
Probably something simp!e you overlooked.

 

[Blackhawkxx]

. So, I take the upper intake and valve covers off and reset everything to zero lash, plus 1/2 turn.

Are you sure the cam was on the base circle intake/exhaust for each cylinder you adjusted?

 

[mikestang63]

really easy way I have been setting valve lash on pedestal style hydraulic rockers for 40+ years.

with the valve covers off. tighten all of the rockers to 0 lash- when you cannot move the pushrod up and down and a slight drag when rotated
rotate the crank with a socket 45 degrees and tighten up all the rockers again to 0 lash
Repeat the process for 2 full rotations of the crank
Once you are done then turn each rocker arm an extra 1/2 to 3/4 of a turn depending on the cam. I start with 1/2 turn,
That's it. You're done. No finding of TDC or getting the cam on base cirlce for each valve.

 

[maxine-70]

after 'unloading' the preload on each lifter, does the plunger need time to fully unload and fully rise inside the lifter?

im wondering this after reading the summit article recommending this, combined with the fact that I did the 1/2 turn preload recommendation on each rocker while on each base circle, and it running terribly afterward, but me giving it no time between releasing previous preload and resetting it, which, in theory, I guess 'could' net more than 1/2 turn new preload if the plunger hadnt risen back up.

 

[maxine-70]

per summits article i mentioned:

1. Warm the engine to operating temperature.
2. Remove the valve covers.
3. Hand-turn the engine in its normal direction of rotation.
4. Watch the exhaust valve on that particular cylinder.
5. When the exhaust valve begins to open, STOP.
6. Adjust that cylinder's intake rocker arm.
   1. Back off the intake rocker arm adjuster. Wait 1-2 minutes for the lifter to return to a neutral position.
      1. The spring inside the lifter will move the pushrod seat up against the retaining lock.
      2. Note: If installing brand new lifters, they will come in the neutral position.
   2. Hold the intake pushrod with your fingers while tightening down the rocker arm.
      1. When you just take the up and down movement out of the pushrod, you are at "zero lash.
   3. Turn the adjusting nut down 1/2 to 1 full turn from that point.
   4. Lock The Rocker Arm In Place.
7. Continue to hand-turn the engine, watching that same intake valve.
   1. It will go to full lift, then begin to close.
8. When the intake valve is almost closed, STOP.
9. Adjust that cylinder's exhaust rocker arm.
   1. Back off the exhaust rocker arm adjuster. Wait 1-2 minutes for the lifter to return to a neutral position.
      1. The spring inside the lifter will move the pushrod seat up against the retaining lock.
      2. Note: If installing brand new lifters, they will come in the neutral position.
   2. Hold the exhaust pushrod with your fingers while tightening down the rocker arm.
      1. When you just take the up and down movement out of the pushrod, you are at "zero lash."
   3. Turn the adjusting nut down 1/2 to 1 full turn from that point.
   4. Lock The Rocker Arm In Place
10. Move to the next cylinder in the Firing Order and repeat the same procedure.
    1. Continue until all cylinders have been adjusted.

 

[90sickfox]

Sounds like you are adjusted too tight...especially with popping in the exhaust. If I hear slight noise I'll pull the valve covers, reinstall the upper intake, and run the engine listening at each valve for the culprit. ( can be messy ) I've seen stubborn and bad lifters right out of the box. You want the lifters to bleed down before adjustment. You should be able to push down on the pushrod and feel the spring in the lifter. Dont push it down fast and dont do it multiple times- pumping them can cause adjustment issues and youll need to wait for them to bleed dowm again. Sometimes people get confused with setting zero lash because they think that means all the way until they can't push down on the lifter plunger. The result is overtightened valves. The lifters need to sit and bleed down before adjustments can be made. Stud mount rockers can be a PITA. Stud mounted rockers can be adjusted with the engine running by feel and sound.

 

[Blackhawkxx]

Stud mounted rockers can be adjusted with the engine running by feel and sound.

I kind of think that is the best way but it's way too messy for me. Back in the day I cut the center out of a valve cover to try to stop the mess of oil going everywhere but it was still messy.

 

[limp]

Very simple way to adjust hydraulic valves...
As you turn the crank by hand with a breaker bar,
Adjust the intake as the exhaust starts to open
Adjust the exhaust as the intake starts to close...
I assume you understand snugging the adjuster to take up the slack before you adjust it?

 

[maxine-70]

so, update:

I set each valve up on the base circle of the cam, individually, and verified 0 lash on each. when done with all 16, each checked twice, I then went back and did a half turn on each and locked them down. put it all back together, started right up and ran well again, but I still have the original minor ticking, again mostly on the passenger side. Heres my new question. on 2 of the cylinders, I noted that i could easily push the pushrod and bottom out the lifter plunger. so, is it a failed/collapsed lifter, or will that occur when that lifter has been under full pressure holding its valve fully open for days, and has had its inner oil bled off from the spring pressure? I only ran it a few minutes after the test firing, and it seemed to slowly lessen in sound, but is still present.

so A: do you think its a failed or collapsed lifter and needs to be replaced?
B: I should leave it a while and see if additional run time will fill the lifter body with oil ?
3: put some additive in with the oil that may help with sticky lifters?

again, this motor was built, put in the car, and then sat unfired for 9 years. It sounds feasable to me that a lifter or two could be collapsed from sitting under spring pressure all that time. Looking for opinions on which routes to go.

Thanks!

 

[Blackhawkxx]

B: I should leave it a while and see if additional run time will fill the lifter body with oil ?

If it were me, I would run it a little while to see. If it get louder, stop. I have heard many stories of lifters being junk but haven't run into it. There is no chance it is a header leak? The valve guide were done or checked when the engine was rebuilt?

 

[nickyb]

Lifters sitting that many years could need some time to pump up. Run it for a good while and see.

 

[maxine-70]

blackhawk, they are brand new trick flow heads, out of the box


drained the oil and replaced with lighter 5w-20 penn synthetic (original break in was mobil 10-30 synthetic) and a little seafoam, thinking maybe a lighter oil may get into the lifter better. ran it about 15 minutes at and just above idle. still just enough valvetrain noise to irritate me. definitely not an exhaust leak. take the oil fill cap off and listen into it and its louder.

anyone had any issues with lunati roller retrofit link-bar lifters? im still wondering about those 2 that easily compressed by hand....

at first i thought i might just replace the lifter set, but damn! I dont remember them being $500+ when I bought them 9 years ago. fux! I remember taking apart some lifters as a kid and there wasnt much to them. are they rebuildable?

 

[AeroCoupe]

So the valve train on the 331 in my Coupe is noisy and I replaced the Comp Cams lifters with Ford Racing and it didn’t change. Had to swap to Scorpion rockers due to the Crane Energizer rockers not having enough clearance for the cam lift and still noisy. Geometry is spot on so I have just chalked it up to valve noise. Talked to a couple of engine builders and they both said it’s nothing to worry about. It has been this way for years.