C6 cheaper than C5!!!, will this help keep 07 Cobra prices down?

Discussion in '2005 - 2014 S-197 Mustang -General/Talk-' started by Z28x, Jul 8, 2004.


  1. SVTdriver

    SVTdriver Founding Member

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    In 1993 the Cobra had 235 hp
    In 2004 the Cobra has 390 hp
    In 1993 the Cobra was a fox body
    In 2004 the Cobra was an sn-95
    In 1993 the Cobra had 17 x 7.5 wheels
    In 2004 the Cobra has 17 x 8 wheels
    In 1993 the Cobra had cast iron block and heads
    In 2004 the Cobra has aluminum heads and a s/c
    Now I don't know how much the corvette has changedBut it was NOT $45k
    1993 Corvette PRODUCTION:
    21,590 with 15,898 coupes & 5692 convertibles
    BASE PRICE:
    $34,595 for coupes, $41,195 for convertibles
    BASE STYLES:
    Sport Coupe, Convertible
    BASE ENGINE:
    350 cubic inches, 300 horsepower

    And noone not one person here or anywhere. Knows what the next Cobra will cost.
    #21
  2. RydeOn

    RydeOn Licensed to Chill Founding Member

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    Allright I was a little bit off, but dont go comparing a base Corvette to a fully loaded Cobra. More than half the vettes had leather seats, AC and a radio with CD player so now were up to $38,000 with those basic options. In 1993 a Cobra was nearly half as much as a vette, and almost as fast. Now we are adding blowers, heavy motors and all this mumbo jumbo and the Cobra is fattening up in price and weight, while the Corvette is shedding pounds, performing better (not just in a straight line), and maintaining a price consistent with inflation. We dont know how much the new Cobra will cost, but we do know that it will cost at least $35,000. The question is, how much more can the Cobra cost before people start buying Vettes?
    #22
  3. SVTdriver

    SVTdriver Founding Member

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    I'm looking at a copy of the window sticker for a 93 cobra which has it at $20209.00. But the MSRP was $18,505.00
    And as far as options on a 93 cobra.
    PEP250A (A/C power equipe. group, floor mats.)$1455.00
    Clearcoat paint $91.00
    C6 (keather seating) $523.00
    13C (Flip up open air roof)$355.00
    585 (AM/FM stereo/CD player) $629.00
    57Q (Rear window defroster) $170.00
    217 ($ way power driver's seat) $183.00
    41H (Engine heater) $20.00
    Destination and delivery $475
    As you can see just like the corvette. Options on the Cobra built up pretty fast. Though there weren't many options
    So with all the options on the cobra it came in at an MSRP of $22,406.
    Now today's (2004) base model corvette is $44,635 But only has 350hp
    And the Cobra (2004) is $35,485. And has 390 hp There is a difference of $9k Yea the gap has gotten smaller. But the hp is clearly in the Cobra's favor (For right now). And we still have $9k to work with before it gets close to the corvette's price.

    Honestly I don't think that too many people that would buy Cobra's are going to buy vette's unless they had an interest in them first. Like someone that could not afford a vette so they bought a Cobra. You only have to look at the people that are seen driving the cars. I see far older men driving the corvette, than I do see driving the Cobra. And since noone knows what the Cobra is going to have. As standard or optional. There is no way to have a discussion on How much more expensive a Cobra can get before people buy Corvettes. I personally won't ever own a corvette. It has nothing to do with the car itself. Merely the fact that I have and likely always will be a mustang fan. I feel the corvette is too high priced for me. And while I do think the Cobra is getting to be too high. It is still within my range.
    #23
  4. Z28x

    Z28x New Member

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    Yes, The Vette wasn't ever $45K in 93, it was $35K base
    1993 - 300HP LT1 $35K
    2005 - 400HP LS2 $43K

    The Cobra has gone up scale, over the past 12 years. I think $35K is a fair price for a 400HP Cobra that can hang with the base Vette. Since the C6 is now more powerful and lighter the Cobra is going to need to be beefed up the stay on target. I'm hoping the $32K 400HP '05 GTO and $43K 400HP Vette make the Ford bean counters think twice about charging over $40K for the next Mustang Cobra. Mustang has always been about affordable performance.
    #24
  5. RICKS

    RICKS New Member

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    Hey, I BOUGHT a brand new 1993 Corvette in '93 (duh). Chevy had seriously great dealer incentives in-place at the time, I remember my local home-town dealership advertising base-model no-real-option C4 coupes for $29999.95 LOL!! I purchased my triple-black, leather, power drivers AND passenger seats, both the clear blue lexan removable roof and the painted/headliner roof, performance axle, Delco Bose Gold w/CD, electronic climate control, and that's all I can think of but it was NICELY optioned with everything I really wanted (didn't see much need for the high-buck 3-point adjustable suspension, the stock suspension was a perfect balance of ride and performance) for just shy of $33K. So take that $38K figure and toss it, that's flat-out untrue and was not the reality of the time. Chevy was giving the dealers huge kickback incentives at the time that allowed them to sell severely below MSRP, which is where everybody was dealing. Just playing with numbers. My car stickered at $38K and change, and I bought it for appr. $32,900, and no, I didn't know somebody at the dealership. I was just a 26 year old kid with an insurance check (friend totalled my '88 GT :( ) and good credit. It was one hell of a deal, and alot of car for the dough considering it ran low 13.40's @ 107 mph right out of the box, and with Borla and some airbox changes it dipped to 13-flat at 108+, and if the road was curvy, all my heavy modded 5.0 friends didn't want ANYTHING to do with chasing me LOL! I loved the car, and it was a good reliable car, but sold it when miles started getting high.
    #25
  6. SVTdriver

    SVTdriver Founding Member

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    Ok here's the thing though. There are so many diffferent prices that people paid (negotiating skills). That the best way to show the difference in those cars is to use MSRP. Since it is a constant price. Now you just said your car stickered at $38k and change. Which makes the other post correct about MSRP.
    #26
  7. RICKS

    RICKS New Member

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    I really doubt anybody paid sticker. It was a factory rebate, it was in ads, it was well-known, it was the only reason why I even considered a 'Vette. I had the same deal offered from dealers all over the southeast. I was sitting in my dealership in Gainesville, and we were doing an inventory search for the exact colors/options I wanted, so that they could have it transferred in from another dealer. We basically searched dealers up to Virginia, and over to the Mississippi, and printed out a couple dozen Corvettes that matched my criteria. The salesman made the mistake of leaving me in the office with the printout while he excused himself to go talk to a friend. I hurriedly jotted down all the dealer names and phone #'s, and after getting done B.S.-ing with my salesman went home to call all the dealers directly and bypass my dealer since there's always a few hundred bucks involved in a dealer transfer. Every dealership I called was totally upfront with the rebates, and all were within $300 bucks of the price I finally paid, just talking on the phone for a minute or two. It had NOTHING to do with "negotiating skills", they were all quoting the low prices without me having to say boo about anything. Since everybody was pegged around the same price, I picked the car that was closest to me, in Daytona. Picked it up, watched my buddy who drove me there destroy an unsuspecting ZR-1 in his '91 LX 5.0 with heads/cam/intake/suspension and 150 h.p. of nitrous (this is a great story I gotta tell, we're sitting at a red light right in front of the speedway, my buddy's in front of me. This red Corvette pulls next to me, and the driver hollers "nice car" at me, gestures towards my friend's stock appearing 5.0 and says "watch this". Of course I just look dumb and say "alright". He pulls up next to the 5.0. I see my buddy's head disappear as he's spinning the valve open on his bottle behind the seat and arming the system. I also notice immediately that this guy's driving a ZR-1, not just the decal, but a wide-body real ZR-1. The light turns green, the ZR-1 just torches him off the line 'cause the 5.0 really doesn't hook at all in 1st gear. My buddy shortshifted through first, spun 2nd, and then went steaming past the ZR-1 countersteering, half sideways, in 3rd gear... The ZR-1 guy had no idea what he was in store for, and it was precious watching him pass that 'vette with the friggin tail hanging 1-2 feet out!!) Sorry, had to divert to story telling. Then we had some celebration brews at the Hooters across from the track, and headed home. BUT, the dealer incentives were highly publicized, and all the dealerships were selling alot of Vette's due to the price breaks. MSRP was just a number in a window from '93 all the way through '96, as Chevy was trying to milk all the sales they could out of the C4 chassis until the C5 was ready. The fact was that you could buy any C4 Vette for much less than sticker, and that counts in my book. Anybody ever try to negotiate a "good" deal under sticker for a Cobra in the 90's??? :rolleyes: It just wasn't possible, most dealers wouldn't budge off MSRP, so it's not a fair comparison.
    #27
  8. SVTdriver

    SVTdriver Founding Member

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    It is a bette comparision than trying to get everyone who ever bought a 93 corvette. To post their prices and then average it out. Just a for instance. The Chevy dealer closest to me. Wants $50k for every vette on his lot. He wouldn't budge at all when my friend went in to buy. But I did not use that as a basis for comparing current prices. Just because itwas advertised. Does not mean everyone got it. One dealer up here is not advertising any of the current rebates on mustangs. And not to magazine race or anything. But C&D don't publish what they can pay for a car with rebates and such. They usually give you MSRP and as tested prices.
    #28
  9. RICKS

    RICKS New Member

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    I see your point, and I'm not trying to argue it. But it is a fact that the big 3 use many different "games" with pricing to lure customers. Often times, it's the same game that furniture stores use. Post an absurdly high "retail" price, and then discount the daylights out of it, tricking people into the belief they're getting a firesale price. If you haven't noticed, AutoWeek does it better than the other car mags when they evaluate a car. They list the MSRP, THEN, below that, they do some research. They take a sampling survey of what owners of that car ACTUALLY PAID, and they print that range from lowest price to highest price paid. Then, they print an "average" price paid from that surveyed sample set. Usually, that average is a great indicator of what you can easily get at any dealership (yes there are unscrupulous dealers out there. You don't cite them as examples, you simply don't buy there. I don't think that stupid people should sway the average of what a car generally sells for). When the car is in plentiful supply, or heavy incentives/rebates are in place, the Autoweek "average" price paid is always way way less than MSRP. So I understand your point, but you can't just blindly use MSRP for comparison, and turn your back on other market variables. It works in reverse also. The new Ford GT MSRP's for $129,995. But it's NOT a $130K car at this moment, most dealers are demanding (and getting) hefty premiums above that. If you can't buy the car at MSRP, then MSRP means about as much as the price of tea in China.
    #29
  10. Mach428

    Mach428 New Member

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    I have a question and I hope someone can answer it. In 2007 Will ford be making both a Shelby Cobra and an SVT Cobra, because is so, the shelby Cobra may explain this high price rumor we have been reading about. As I stated before, I can't understand why Ford would want to price there Cobra as much as or close to the new Vette. If Ford went and price there new Cobra the same as a Vette they would be loosing alot of their "Go really fast Cheap" customers. Ford and Chevy should keep there cars in diffrent markets, because if Ford tries to enter the bracket the Vette is in, they will only be helping out Vette sales and hurting Cobra sales. And after the 2003 Cobra, with all of its problems (And there were alot) people are not going to want to pay $43,000 for a first year production 2007 Cobra.
    #30
  11. Z28x

    Z28x New Member

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    THe Shelby Cobra, if built, is rumored to cost around $90,000+, The SVT Mustang Cobra was rumored to cost over $40K+ if it had the S/C DOHC 5.4L
    #31
  12. SVTdriver

    SVTdriver Founding Member

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    And I do understand your point. But MSRP is the only constant price. So that is why I use it. If you read most of my posts. If I can find a fixed number. That won't change. I will use it. Since like hp between cars of hte same model and year can vary. Prices also can vary.

    I don't know. I think there are enough stupid people in the world to effect average prices. But that's just my personal view on today's society.
    #32
  13. SVTdriver

    SVTdriver Founding Member

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    On a side note. Does anyone actually remember who started the Cobra at +$40k rumor?
    #33
  14. Omegalock

    Omegalock New Member

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    Nope.. It was one of those wild rumors that were swirling around a few months back and nothing has come up to support it or detract it.
    #34
  15. SVTdriver

    SVTdriver Founding Member

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    So basically it's just become a self perpetuating myth.
    #35
  16. G0NEn60

    G0NEn60 New Member

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    I do think Ford should not price the Cobra around Vette and M3 prices. I think the current Cobra is already a little out of Mustang territory. I think that when a company does that it alienates its faithful customers. Not just that but I think a big reason the Cobra shouldn't battle the vette is because most people shopping for a new vette aren't shopping for a stang. There is a certain prestige that comes along with buying a relatively expensive car.
    Even though the Vette and the camaro share a lot, you can't tell by looking at it that a 20K camaro is related. Frankly, most people that are willing to pay 40K for a car don't want to be in a car that looks like a rimmed and kitted base model mustang. The same reason that in America Toyota and Honda have Lexus and Acura. Americans need that class separation, that prestige. Ofcourse some people will still buy a 40K+ mustang but how many vette and M3 potentials are going to opt for the mustang. It's roots are embedded to low with the base models. It will be the 300ZX, Supra, RX-7, etc....story all over again.
    #36
  17. Omegalock

    Omegalock New Member

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    Yeah that nasty "It's still just a Mustang" will rear it's head. It doesn't detract from the car's performance but it does detract from it's mystique. Just as I wouldn't buy a 22k Neon even if it was faster than a Mustang I wouldn't buy a 40k Mustang even if were faster than a 43k Vette. And then going up the scale I wouldn't buy an 80k Vette if I could afford a 120k Ferrari.
    #37
  18. G0NEn60

    G0NEn60 New Member

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    I paid 21K for my Neon and I haven't looked back. It's an awesome deal and its a great price for what you get. Most cars in that class cost about 20K loaded out so it really isn't that bad when you factor in the performance advantage. Almost all of the compacts start under 15K, Civic, Golf, Sentra, Cavalier, Ion, but the whole "its a Neon" thing seems to be the only answer for everyone gettin smoked by it. It's still competing(pricewise) in the Compact economy class. I don't hide behind the SRT-4 badge, whenever someone asks what it is I say Neon. I think the main difference in your comparison is the Neon isn't exactly priced above its class. If the Cobra were priced that high(40K+) it would put it in another class of cars. Aiming for BMW performance/quality is a good thing but I think that price will alienate a lot of its customers and like I said most people with 40K to spend want to drive a "trophy" car. Benz, BMW, Porsche, etc....
    Just for s**ts and giggles....I think the best bang for buck, platforms for drag/street racing are: FWD-SRT-4 RWD-Cobra 4WD-Evolution.
    #38
  19. SVTdriver

    SVTdriver Founding Member

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    I don't neccessarily disagree with you. But if you think noone wants a $40k mustang. Can you explain saleen's and Roush's sales? For being more limited in number than the Cobra. I see about the same amount around where I live.
    #39
  20. kirkyg

    kirkyg Founding Member

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    Doubt it will affect fords plan to increase quality and power and price all at the same time. Moreover it shows how poorly the corvette sells. Having to LOWER Prices from one year model to a totally new design is a very very bad sign in terms of marketing.

    kirkyg
    #40

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