Dyno'd tuned or other option?

Discussion in '1994 - 1995 Specific Tech' started by Cobra_Dusten, Jan 11, 2006.


  1. Cobra_Dusten

    Cobra_Dusten Member

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    Alright, my cobra is getting a new motor this weekend, 306, with GT-40P heads, x303 cam, but the rest is staying the same. When the PO had the S/C installed, it was never tuned, and i was never happy with the way it ran. Do, i have to get it dyno'd tuned, or is there another option, other than tuning it myself, as i dont really have the knowledge required.
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  2. CManT1914

    CManT1914 New Member

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    A blown H/C/I 5.0 is gonna be in SERIOUS need of some tuning! I'm assuming you have some bigger injectors right, and not a cheap FMU? If you don't want to do the self-tuning route, a dyno tune is really the only route to go with that.
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  3. Cobra_Dusten

    Cobra_Dusten Member

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    IT still has the 24lber's, just a new set that came with the new motor. Its not that i dont want to go with the self tuned route, i have no knowledge, less time, and dont have the $$$ to buy the setup
    #3
  4. DMAN302

    DMAN302 My mom says thanks for the pearl necklace.

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    Injectors are WAY undersized for a blown HCI car..I would definatly opt for a maf upgrade with the injectors, and baby her till a dyno oportunity arises.
    #4
  5. Cobra_Dusten

    Cobra_Dusten Member

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    I forgot that the new motor has a 70MM BBK TB, and a 75MM Granatelli MAF cal'd for 24# injectors.
    #5
  6. SeventyMach1

    SeventyMach1 Keep it lubed .... keep it straight .... and keep

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    FYI .... I don't want to steer you in a direction you don't wanna go .... but I have seen people in the past selling self-tuning equipment, such as the TwEECer, in classified sections on various forums. You can get them alot cheaper than new. Also, I believe there are websites that break everything down for you, as well as all the "helpful" self-tuners on sites such as this one. I wouldn't just weed out self-tuning just because of your knowledge. You have to start somewhere. I'm going to have to start learning here soon myself, lol.
    #6
  7. urban96

    urban96 bubb rubb says:"woo woooooo" Founding Member

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    that MAF wont work with the cobra computer and those injectors
    #7
  8. Cobra_Dusten

    Cobra_Dusten Member

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    WHy do you say it wont work? OTher than size, how is it different than the MAF in my cobra?
    #8
  9. legalize420

    legalize420 Active Member

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    your maf would need to be calibrated to 19's. cobras came with the same MAF as the gt. the cobra computer compensates for the different size injectors.
    #9
  10. final5-0

    final5-0 Mustang Master

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    Here are two things I think are key for what you are trying to do.

    You or a Pro can't tune with your maf/inj's as they are too small :nono:

    Money don't have anything to do with this issue.

    No matter which way you tune ... you gotta part with the money
    IF
    you wanna do it right for max power
    AND
    near perfect drivability

    Please understand me here ... not tryin to be a hard azz :D
    I do understand about the money all too well :bang:

    For now ... you got two options to tune your combo .................

    I'll give you the best (mo money) first
    AND
    the second best (less money) but if I was you ..................
    I'd only use that method until you can move to the other method.

    1 Maf of sufficient size to handle airflow needs of a blown combo.
    Something like a Lightning maf, Granatelli, ProM 77/80 with 42lb cal, etc.
    42lb inj will work nicely with your plans.
    At least 255 intank pump will be needed to push enough fuel.
    A custom tune by you or a Pro

    2 Inj's first
    Use a fmu (mechannical tuning) to elevate fuel pressure which makes your 24's act larger.

    Now for the maf ... not as simple as the inj's :(
    For a maf, you or may not be able to use the maf you now got.
    As has been said above, things don't match like they should
    HOWEVER
    Even if you got a maf caled for 19's that would not work
    cause
    your blown combo would peg that baby maf in a heart-beat :rlaugh:
    Heck, you very well could peg a 24 and maybe a 36lb caled maf :D

    Moving to a different subject about your concerns ....................

    If you wanna learn to self tune ...................

    You could not have started with a more challenging way to learn.
    Blown combos are way less forgiving of mistakes than NA.
    Not saying you can't do it.
    Just more difficult.

    Hope this helps you in some way :shrug:

    At least you now got some more stuff to think about :rlaugh:

    Grady
    #10
  11. Cobra_Dusten

    Cobra_Dusten Member

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    First, money isnt a big issue. I was trying to avoid a dyno tune if i could, because i dont have the time to load my car on a trailer, and take it to the nearest shop i know of(portland, almost 3 hours with a trailer) Because of my work this would have to be a saturday as it is. I didnt pick this set of inj's or MAF, they were on the motor when i bought them. I did however drive the car with the other set of 24's and stock maf and tb for about 10K miles before i parked it, to put the new motor in it. I am not looking for max power, i dont race the car, its my DD. I would have never bought the blower, the only reason i have it, is because it came with the car i bought. I have an in tank pump(in the sig) that flows 255LPH. From my reading and understanding, cobra's have there own specific MAF and ECM, because they come stock with 24's, am i wrong in this understanding? That is why i didnt think the MAF would be a problem. I really dont have any urge to learn to self tune, i didnt want to spend the money there, because i didnt want to buy something i would never use.
    #11
  12. legalize420

    legalize420 Active Member

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    cobra and gt maf are the same, different computer
    #12
  13. Cobra_Dusten

    Cobra_Dusten Member

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    as you posted that, i read that on here, my bad, thanks
    #13
  14. hrspwrjunkie

    hrspwrjunkie New Member

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    There's something you didn't take into consideration. The P heads aren't much different in flow characteristics to the stock Cobra heads (GT-40). The E303 was specifically tuned for that combination and I think you would be happier with the E-Cam in this circumstance as the X was designed for a more aggressive head, the X head. It will also have rougher idling characteristics than the E cam. You will probably see some gain in the top end, but do to the design of the heads, there's a good chance you could see a drop in part throttle driving power as well as low-end power.

    That said, tune it but check out a tuner MAF (which isn't designed to work with a specific computer but for custom tuning to any combination) such as is currently offered by C&L: www.cnlperformance.com

    I believe that MAF is offered in 76mm which is definitely big enough for your application and will provide better metering than a larger MAF.

    There are other companies, such as Pro-Flow, that provide a suitable MAF, but they changed owners some time ago and I forgot the site address. They are tuneable to specific applications if need be.

    As far as the 24 lb injectors, they are suitable to a maximum of a 400 horse application, the 30s can be tuned for up to 500, 36 to 600 and 42 to 700.

    Some of the running gremlins you may have run into are because the 94-95 computers aren't as capable as some of the ealier computers to deal with airflow change and the idle is a bit too eratic for the computer so to get the motor to be more drivable, it will need to be recalibrated. If you go with the X cam, it will only get worse. An in-between would be the F-cam which was designed for the standard GT-40 heads...specifically in the Lightening, but the flow characteristics will be more optimized.

    Ryan

    #14
  15. Cobra_Dusten

    Cobra_Dusten Member

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    I appreciate the info. I was considering keeping the E cam, but my father thought the x cam would be a better deal. I will probably do that then. So, from what everyone says, i need to toss my maf, and get a different one? Is this correct? I dont think i am going to change out injectors, i was happy with my past drivability, and dont want to lose that due to bigger injectors and bigger cam. Like i said, ultimate HP isnt my goal, i went that route with my diesel last time, and in the end, lost out on drivability.
    #15
  16. N8Miller

    N8Miller I need NOS....make it 2 of the big ones Founding Member

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    i agree, those 24s are too small. as stated above the 42s would be much better. but if were talking too small, whats wtih those P heads on a supercharged car?
    #16
  17. hrspwrjunkie

    hrspwrjunkie New Member

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    Well you won't have any more horsepower then you do now, unless you have a much more efficiant bottom end. IE, more quench causing more swirl and cleaner burn or less ring blow-by. The only problem with the injectors may be if you have an engine producing more power than the injectors are currently supplying fuel for, you will run into a lean problem and can potentially ruin the motor, so moving to larger injectors may be necessary for survival of the engine. But I would have the combo tuned to make sure you aren't running lean, regardless (and to extract every bit of power and drivability...you might as well get everything you can from what you paid for). But, if you are willing to have the motor tuned and it doesn't exceed 400 horses, the 24 lb injectors will be fine.

    As far as the Granatelli MAF goes...I don't know if it can be tuned by a tuner...if it can you will need the transfer functions. Often times "tuned" MAFs aren't the easiest to tune with and are better left for plug-and-play applications.

    Ryan

    #17
  18. Cobra_Dusten

    Cobra_Dusten Member

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    the p heads are slightly better than the gt-40's on it. here is the deal, i bought the engine from a friend, he bought it, never used it. As stated before, i am only keepin the s/c because i have it. I am not looking to make anymore power than in the dyno number in my sig. I was very happy with that power, the only reason for the new motor, is the other motor is stock, stock heads, different cam, stock intake, stock bottom end. It was getting tired. I will call krazy concepts and see if they can tune the maf that is on the car.
    #18
  19. Cobra_Dusten

    Cobra_Dusten Member

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    Alright, i got off the phone with Krazy Koncepts. they think that i will okay with my 24's for what i want, that i need to run the E cam, and that i should sell my MAF and get a C&L, so they can tune it.
    #19
  20. hrspwrjunkie

    hrspwrjunkie New Member

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    That sounds like a very reasonable direction to go.

    Richard Holdner, in a book titled 5.0L Ford Dyno Tests (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=a02vedXCwE&isbn=1884089453&itm=1) put together a tested combination that was a little more aggressive than yours in the 94-95 chassis and only reached 400 horses, so I think you've made a good call on your combination. It should be stout and fun.

    Ryan

    #20

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