Help! I'm being defeated by pulleys and belts

Discussion in 'Classic Mustang Specific Tech' started by freddiecougar, Jan 26, 2010.


  1. freddiecougar

    freddiecougar New Member

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    I am working on a 66. car originally was P/S, no A/C.
    I added Vintage Air A/C and a Unisteer P/S system.
    I can not figure out belts and pulleys. I have a 2 groove lower (the original one) and single, double, and triple upper pulleys. The single was the original and all are the same diameter and depth.
    I can not figure out how to route the belts. Is there a diagram somewhere? I searched the forum, but can't find anything. I tried running one belt to the PS, AC, crank and W/P, but there is nowhere near enough engagement on the P/S pulley, and the belt hits the bracketry anyhow. Do I need a triple groove lower? I am getting so frustrated, I must be missing something easy...
    If I could move the A/C compressor OUT from the block, I could use the triple upper for that alone, all would be good, but there are no provisions for that....
    anyone have any ideas before I set this thing on fire?
    Tim
     
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  2. 2+2GT

    2+2GT Well-Known Member

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    OK, the single alt pulley is OK, but you need the 2-sheave water pump pulley, and the 3-sheave crank pulley. The groove closest to the engine on the waster pump and crank is for the alt. The next groove on the water pump and crank is for the power steering, and you will need the AC style PS pulley. The crank sheave closest to the radiator is for the AC. There will also be an idler pulley for adjusting the AC belt tension.
     
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  3. freddiecougar

    freddiecougar New Member

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    OK, there is one of the problems...aftermarket PS pulley, single groove only. I need to see if I can find a double groove PS pulley for that pump...good times...
    There is no idler, the A/C compressor has the tension adjustment on the mounting bracket, if that changes anything.
    Let me go look and see if that all makes sense. wish me luck. this is all that is keeping me from starting the car for the first time!
     
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  4. chockostang

    chockostang New Member

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    Freddie, there is no 2 Sheeve Power Steering pump pulley.

    The Outside sheeve on crank runs the Air.

    Water Pump, PS Pump has no bearing on routing.

    Dan @
    Chockostang
     
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  5. 2+2GT

    2+2GT Well-Known Member

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    This ought to do, although there is one glaring error on this engine, it doesn't effect belt routing.

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. 69gmachine

    69gmachine Member

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    OK, so for those of us not well versed in the 65-66 289, what's the glaring error?
     
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  7. zm830101

    zm830101 New Member

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    looks to me the fan is mounted backwards
     
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  8. JonK

    JonK Member

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    Here's a pic of a stock 3 groove crank pulley for A/C. I don't know if the Vintage air system will put the pulley in the same alignment as the stock 'brick' compressor especially since there is no idler on the VA.
    [​IMG]

    It sure looks like there's an idler pulley above the WP pulley in this pic on the VA website? The alt. belt definately looks like it goes to the WP pulley below the small idler pulley that the AC belt goes to?
    http://www.vintageair.com/08/images/SureFitsytems/Ford/67-68 Mustang/67-68engcprtmntps.jpg

    If it helps any my stock 67 w/o AC starting w/1st pulley closest to engine went alt (1groove)>WP(1groove)>crank (3groove w/AC). 2nd pulley out on crank>PS. That should make the 3rd pulley AC>idler>crank (does the VA unit need a 2pulley WP pulley? if it doesn't use and idler?

    Either way I think that's the order the belts should line up in so start with the alt., then line up you're PS belt next on crank, then AC in front. You need a 3 pulley crank as far as I can tell from all the setups I've seen. Here's the Classic Auto air setup and they sell a 3 belt pulley for the crank:
    1964, 1965, or 1966 Mustang Air Conditioning System | 64, 65, or 66 Ford Mustang AC
    Looks like it goes AC>WP(2pulley)>crank.

    Look at this PDF for your year/V8, looks like #8509 is the 2 pulley WP and #6312 is the 3 pulley crank, then pick the part # to match your setup (alt/gen., singel pulley insert for crank, etc.) 64-66 is on PDF page 37-39 (photo pgs. 30-32).
    http://www.classicautoair.com/Catalog/MustangCatalog5thEdition.pdf
    Jon
     
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  9. 2+2GT

    2+2GT Well-Known Member

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    Yep. What's sad is the photo is from a magazine article about detailing the 289.

    I know the CAA system follows the routing of the OE belt setup. I haven't used the Vintage setup.
     
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  10. Bullitt

    Bullitt Packin' Heat
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    The picture referenced above is correct for 67/68 cars. There is an idler that bolts to the water pump and adjust belt tension for the AC compressor. You can see the wrench flats for it just forward of the upper radiator hose.

    You need:
    3 groove crank pulley
    all others single groove
    Idler Pulley for you engine (big block or small block)

    Alternator + WP + Crank is 1 belt
    AC + Idler + Crank is another
    PS + Crank is the last

    Your AC compressor bracket should slide fore/aft on the engine letting you adjust the position to get to the correct idler and crank groove position. If you can't get it far enough forward (or rearward), check which side of the mounting tabs you have the compressor. Having the tabs more forward or more backward will gain you a bit of space. If you Vintage Air compressor is anything like mine, it has 2 grooves, so there's plenty of adjustment there to get the belt on right.
     
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  11. Rapid

    Rapid New Member

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    The Vintage Air folks are a lot of help if you ask them.
     
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  12. 2+2GT

    2+2GT Well-Known Member

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    I disagree.

    With AC and PS, the PS belt goes in a second, forward sheave on the water pump. Only the "PS no AC" belt goes below the water pump pulley. The 2-sheave water pump pulley was also somewhat smaller in diameter, to speed up the pump and provide clearance for the slightly larger 3-sheave crank pulley. If you look in the 67 Engine Assembly book you can see this setup. The MPC also lists that pulley for AC+PS.

    Fortunately, all these pulleys are available new.

    Currently, the only popular pulley NOT available is the 2-sheave crank pulley. It's in the catalogs, but it's CRAP, 3/8" diameter too large. They tried to pull a fast one by using a 3-sheave with the last sheave left off, but the REAL 2-sheave was smaller in diameter. I went through all these setups last year problem-solving, using the Assembly book, MPC, and samples of all the original and repro pulleys, which I why I know this one cold.
     
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  13. chockostang

    chockostang New Member

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    We've help for put Power Steering on many 65 66, some with Air, some not.

    The Facts are, with Factory air.

    3 Groove crank pulley
    2 Groove water pump pulley

    The Alternater runs over water pump to crank, to alternater, back to water pump---All done on groove closest to engine.

    Middle groove of Crank, runs Power Steering pump, Over water pump pulley (Of course other groove empty), to crank, to Power Steering pump. PS Pump pulley will be a AC pulley, Straight up, no invert.

    The Groove closet to radiator, Furtherest from engine, runs the Air.

    Now vintage air, Classic Air have various brackets to mount the Compressor, so when contacting them, state you want to run the factory way, they will/SHOULD help.

    This will eliminate a lot of turmoil as you are experiencing.

    Dan @

    Chockostang
     
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  14. 2+2GT

    2+2GT Well-Known Member

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    Chockostang- I think you'll find both of the sheaves on the water pump are used- the rear one for the alternator, and the front one for the power steering pump.
     
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  15. chockostang

    chockostang New Member

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    TOTALLY AGREE!!!

    I think i worded that stubbornly---The second groove on the W/P pulley runs the Power Steering pump.

    PS Pump, W/P, Crank. PS Pump.

    Dan @
    Chockostang
     
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  16. Tim65GT

    Tim65GT Active Member

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    I too had issues when I installed my Vintage Air system. I couldn't use the three groove balancer pulley that came in the kit, because it had different spacing between the 1st and 2nd groove compared to the 2 groove 3G alternator and WP pulleys.

    I used 3 groove balancer pulley that was on there and everything lined up. I'm guessing it was original to the engine which was a '74 block. I didn't like the fact that the outer groove was almost 8 inches in diameter. I did a little math and found if I cruised on the highway past 4000 rpm, I could be doing damage to the AC compressor. VA says it shouldn't rev past 6000 rpm.

    I don't have Power Steering, but I assume it would have lined up with the middle groove. I used the second groove instead to keep the 130A 3G from slipping.

    The VA systems tensioner IS an idler pulley. And you can move the AC compressor forward on the bracket by adding spacers and trying different positions forward and aft of the tabs.

    I have a serp system now, and it was hard to line up the AC and Alt, but at least I only had to worry about one belt.

    [​IMG]
     
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