help me get it started before i take it to the track

J

jonjonjonjon

Member
Sep 11, 2004
31
0
6
#1
All of a sudden my car started acting up right before I wanted to take it to the track. I drove it for 30 mins, turned it off, went to turn it back on and all I got was a tick. I have hit the starter solenoid with a wrench and put a screwdriver on the terminals to try to jump across it, but neither have worked. I replaced the starter solenoid today and all I still get is one click (which definitely sounds like its coming from there). I took the part back (thinking it may be defective) and exchanged it from a new one, but it still keeps giving me the one tick.

Everything is pretty corrosion free, but I hit all my cables (battery cables, the cable going to the starter motor, all the cables on the solenoid) with a brush pretty quick just to be safe (I'm not saying it was a perfect job, but if any corrosion is there at all itd be so minimal that I doubt it could affect anything). My batter is strong so I don't think that's the problem (unless it somehow lost some cranking amps). I figure I'd replace the starter, but something just doesnt seem right with the solenoid still ticking. Anyone have an idea?

Also I don't know if this matters, but on the solenoid I'm not sure if my wiring is correct. I put it back how it came off, but this is how its on there: one lug (I'm talking about the main lugs, not the "S" and "l" terminals) has just one cable on it from the starter. The other lug has 6 cables on it, including the positive cable from the battery terminal (so there's a ton of cables on one side, so much that they barely all fit on). Does this sound normal though?
 

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#2
Ok no help on that. Well how about this: I tested my battery and its charged so thats not it. I cleaned all my connections so thats not it. I replaced the starter relay so thats not it. So I figure its the starter at this point. I'm going to clean the wires on it if I can get to it (I'm having a real hard time getting to it) and if that doesn't work I'll replace it. Does anyone have any tips for getting to it?
 
#3
The starter solenoid is suppose to click when you turn the key.
Sounds like the starter is locked up for some reason. Use a fairly long extension to get to the 3 bolts that hold the starter on, and it will come off with ease.
 
#4
jonjonjonjon said:
Ok no help on that. Well how about this: I tested my battery and its charged so thats not it. I cleaned all my connections so thats not it. I replaced the starter relay so thats not it. So I figure its the starter at this point. I'm going to clean the wires on it if I can get to it (I'm having a real hard time getting to it) and if that doesn't work I'll replace it. Does anyone have any tips for getting to it?
Click to expand...
starters are actually real easy to change on these cars. Just jack it up, throw some jackstands under it, and Swap it out (check the connections first) it should be pretty easy to access. i think it took me about 10 mins to get it off last time i changed one.

Dr.
 
#5
Did you load test the battery, or just check voltage?

If a battery drop's a cell it will show a full charge until you put a load on it and then they will drop down to less than 4 volt's which would only give you a little "click" and nothing else.

Check the battery voltage why you are trying to start the car. If it drop's below 9 volt's it's toast.

kyle
 
#6
I wouldn't mind just replacing the starter, or at least removing it and testing it, but it looks super hard to get to. It appears to be right above the A arm and a cross member. I can see it, but not reach it from top. How'd you do it Dr_EluSivE?
 
#9
freakintiger said:
You have to get beneath the car to change it out...
Click to expand...
Yup, cant do it from the top.. Jack the car up, (use jackstands) and get under it. the top bolt can sometimes be gotten from the top, but i would use use an extension and get it from the bottom, The others are pretty easy to get. Check the connections first though.. make sure something isnt just loose.

Dr.
 
#10
I threw the car on ramps and was able to get to it (it just looks inaccessible from top, but its actually behind the a arm and cross member). Here's the fun part. I took off the starter, got it tested - it's bad. Bought a new starter, wired it up, put the neg cable back on the battery - boom, car starts by itself and drives off ramps (I had it in gear). Didn't really mess anything up, except where it hit me in the side.

So I imagine I wired my relay incorrectly. I switched one cable between the two posts on the relay and boom, car starts up great. HOWEVER, its making a real high pitched noise that it never made before. To me it sounds like its coming from the starter. My friend told me that newer starters have mechanisms in them to prevent it from grinding on the flywheel if the starter stays stuck engaged. It's definitely not grinding, but my first thought was/is that the starter is staying engaged the whole time the car is running. If I push start the car itll start great WITHOUT the noise. So this leads me to believe it is something with the starter staying engaged. Could I have wired the starter wrong and thats why it stays engaged (though I don't think I did, its not too hard to do). Or is it more possibly the relay wired incorrectly? Ford Dealership, Murray's, and everyone else seem to have no idea how the relay is correctly wired (but the Ford dealership by me will be nice enough to charge $85/hr to wire it correctly, even though they told me they dont know how to wire it). Does anyone know how the relay is CORRECTLY wired?

Here's how my relay is wired:
The relay has 2 big posts and one small terminal (which has the wire from the ignition snapped onto it).
On one big terminal closet the battery the wiring is the black cable from the starter (I believe) and another black cable that is bundled with a red cable (only the black cable is connected to this post).
On the other big terminal closet the firewall the wiring is the positive red cable from the battery, the red cable that is bundled with a black cable (mentioned above), a black and white striped cable with a big silver block thing on the wire, a yellow cable with a small black thing near the end of the wire, and a yellow cable.
 
#11
The starter relay should only be engergized with the key in the start position.

One thing to check is that the ignition switch is properly adjusted. Its on top of the steering column. It is attached with two screws in slots. It has to positioned and tightend so that with the key in the start position, it makes contact with the start terminals, and when the switch spring pushes it back, it only makes contact with the run terminals. If this is not correct you can get the starter to stay turned on with the engine running.

If this is ok, then it is just a matter of getting the relay wired correctly. You can test the wires to the relay by disconnecting them and using a meter to see which one is hot in start only, etc.
 
#13
I dont have a wiring diagram handy, but as a rule, Ford has the pos bat wire going to the starter relay. Then there is a power wire to the starter.

There is power to the switch all the time. With the key on, in start, power is sent to the relay activation wire to operate the relay.

The pos side of the relay, ie, battery wire side is also used as a junction point for most of the vehicle power needs. On the starter side, there should be only the starter, cause thats the only thing operated by the relay.

In most cases.... Older Fords, and Jeeps had an additional terminal that was powered when the relay was operated that provided start position power to the ignition. But this went away when points and Duraspark went away.
 
#14
How it's wired now:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jon4_48195/detail?.dir=/6cd9&.dnm=70aa.jpg&.src=ph

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jon4_48195/detail?.dir=/6cd9&.dnm=a07c.jpg&.src=ph

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jon4_48195/detail?.dir=/6cd9&.dnm=d77c.jpg&.src=ph

-------------------------------------
Ok these two wires are on the post nearest the battery:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jon4_48195/detail?.dir=/6cd9&.dnm=7922.jpg&.src=ph
------------------------------------------
This wire (from the ignition) snaps into the small top terminal - Im not really worried about this one:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jon4_48195/detail?.dir=/6cd9&.dnm=9ee2.jpg&.src=ph
-------------------------------------------
This is the black wire thats bundled to the red wire - currently I have this black wire on the post nearest the battery and its bundled (barely pictured) to the red wire on the other terminal. I'm actually not sure where it comes from:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jon4_48195/detail?.dir=/6cd9&.dnm=143c.jpg&.src=ph
---------------------------------------------------
Heres the cable from my starter, its on the post nearest the battery:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jon4_48195/detail?.dir=/6cd9&.dnm=cbae.jpg&.src=ph
-----------------------------------------------------
These two black cables hanging off the nearest-battery-side post are on that post together right now:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jon4_48195/detail?.dir=/6cd9&.dnm=1860.jpg&.src=ph
--------------------------------------------------------
All the cables (the one in my hand with the silver block on it is on the other post furthest from the battery):
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jon4_48195/detail?.dir=/6cd9&.dnm=af22.jpg&.src=ph
------------------------------------------
This yellow cable with the black on it, in my hand, is on the post furthest the battery:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jon4_48195/detail?.dir=/6cd9&.dnm=abb0.jpg&.src=ph
---------------------------------------------
This other yellow cable in my hand is also on the post furthest the battery:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jon4_48195/detail?.dir=/6cd9&.dnm=2f84.jpg&.src=ph
----------------------------
All of these cables I'm holding are on the same post, the one furthest the battery. That big thick black cable (has some red) is connected directly to the positive battery terminal.:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jon4_48195/detail?.dir=/6cd9&.dnm=4996.jpg&.src=ph

Again:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jon4_48195/detail?.dir=/6cd9&.dnm=7aa7.jpg&.src=ph
-------------------------------
These are the bundled cables I keep mentioning. Originally they were on the same post, but my car kept starting by itself so I put them on opposite posts and it quit starting on its own. But when it starts it sounds like the starter is still engaging, so I don't know if I should have done that. The red cable with the black accordian wrap on it is on the post furthest the battery. The black cable, right on top of the winshield fluid resevoir, is on the post nearest the battery:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jon4_48195/detail?.dir=/6cd9&.dnm=9326.jpg&.src=ph
 
#17
Ok I still dont know what I'm doing, I've tried a whole bunch more stuff to no success. Does anyone have a 2.3L 91-93 mustang in SouthEastern Michigan that would let me look at their wiring for their starter relay for like 10 mins!?!? I'd really appreciate it.
 
#20
Ok I fixed the car. If anyone ever has any trouble with this feel free to ask me, because I spent a lot of time dealing with this. Basically, the fix was the wiring on the Starter Relay on the Fender. The wires from the split cable that I refer to earlier have to be on seperate terminals on the starter relay. So my black wire from the split cable is on the terminal nearest the battery, and that is the only cable on there. The red cable from the split cable is on the other terminal nearest the firewall, which also has the positive cable from the battery on it (2 other yellow cables, an all black wire that I earlier had on the other post, a black and white stripped wire). So the black wire from the split cable (I believe the split cable is to the starter) goes on one terminal, and all the other wires go on the other terminal.
 
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