M&R Engines on Ebaymotors

Discussion in 'Classic Mustang Specific Tech' started by armand67Fstback, Aug 28, 2008.

  1. mustangkid87

    mustangkid87 New Member

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    so first of all i want to clear up i am not matt but i am in the other forums. my 5.1 mustang was built by m&r about 6 months ago. the 347 was my buddies engine that we had m&r machine and balance then we put it together our selves though. i personally have had no problem with them and that is why i came on these forums to give them some positive feed back. The 5.1 modular motor was completely designed and built by them though. it makes a ton of power but it has alot done more than just a new low end. it has fully ported pi heads with a perfessional products port matched intake and comp cams and a ton of valve spring. when i tuned it we set the limiter at 7200 its a little over board for a street motor but i love it. so once again i am not matt just someone who uses and reccomends them.



     
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  2. 10secgoal

    10secgoal Active Member

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    Sure thing. Who is the new guy that works there, Danny ? So you just happened see other people's thread in the most random of forums, create an account just to post about his "junk ?" You need a better cover story than that. Don't forget all of the forums, I see you forgot to go back in some of the others with this BS.

    Customer bought one of those turds before he brought the car in. Not running, but can't wait. they couldn't even send the right clutch for the flywheel they supplied.
     
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  3. vette69

    vette69 New Member

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    Terrible experience with M&R!!

    I have been holding off for a long time on posting this awaiting a final outcome. Well the day has come and is it not pretty. :notnice:

    The following is a chronological review of what has occurred and my awful experience with M&R motors.
    • Purchased a 383 stroker full turnkey in 8/2008 from Danny at M&R. Limited communication after purchase. Motor arrived over 4 weeks late, the block was the wrong color, the fuel lines leaked, the valve covers were loose and the order was missing the fly wheel.
    • Within a few weeks the motor was consuming oil, blackening the oil and leaking oil. Emails and phone messages to M&R were not returned.
    • Approximately 800 miles after install in 5/2009 oil problems got worse to include loss of oil pressure and a rattle. M&R advised a possible faulty PCV valve and valve cover baffles. Unbelievable. By the way, Danny had left M&R by this time and limited correspondence was now with Matt. They advised they would send a replacement PCV, valve covers or additional oil breather to replace the existing set up. Nothing ever arrived.
    • Contacted M&R again in late 5/2009 as problems worsened. They casually advised me to pull the motor and return it for repair all on my dime. I never received a Bill of Lading after we spoke. After numerous phone messages to M&R I finally spoke with them and received shipping info. They assured me that you would call once they received the motor and would advise as to what failed on it.
    • Once again left numerous phone messages with no reply. Finally reached them but they were very evasive as to what had been done to the motor. They mentioned incorrect stud length in oil pump and two glazed cylinders. They assured me the motor would be dynode, an inventory of repairs would be shipped with the motor and tracking information would be sent.
    • After a few weeks I never got any correspondence and called the office again. They stated motor shipped.
    • Finally received motor after weeks of waiting. No information shipped with the motor. Motor was missing the clutch pilot bearing on the crank (so I can only guess they replaced the crank), the water pump was barely on, other closures were hand loose. I do not believe the motor was ever dynode before shipping. They were unable to produce dynode sheets and the condition of the motor did not lend itself to having been dynode.
    • After installing motor for the second time had oil leaking from the intake seal in the rear, the timing cover and valve covers. Also had oil spraying out of the two breathers once the engine was hot. Also hearing random rattles again from motor.
    • In 8/2009 I took the car to a local performance shop immediately after the motor was installed to be dynode and tuned due to lack of power. Initial numbers were way off and very disappointing. Had two different professional Chevy engine tuners work with the motor. Both have extensive experience racing and tuning. Both noticed that the fuel pump did not have enough pressure and was making noise. Replaced existing faulty fuel pump with an Edelbrock high flow pump, replaced spark plugs again, changed out the carb jets, adjusted the timing and re-dynode the car multiple times. No change in motor output. Motor was supposed to dynode at 440 at the flywheel. Rear wheel HP dynode between 270 and 285. Experts agreed something wrong with the motor and no more HP is achievable. Still hearing rattles at this point.
    • Sent email to M&R on 9/04/2009 conveying my disappointment with performance and overall experience. No response. Called multiple times and finally spoke with Matt. They asked me to fax the dynode records and they would get back with me. No reply. I called again numerous times and finally spoke with Matt again.
    • After conveying my anger, disappointment and frustration I pointed out the options. We go to court and I contact the BAR in CA, they refund my money or reimburse my additional expenses and repair the motor again. They stated to pull the motor again and send back to them again for repair. They stated they would monitor the repairs, dynode the motor, turn it around quickly and provide an explanation of the repairs. They said that if I put together a list of additional expenditures they would reimburse me. They assured me that all messages would be returned ongoing. To date and over a year and half, I have never received a call back from one of my messages left at M&R.
    • Almost a week goes by and no shipping information. I leave messages and finally speak with Curtis who is one the mechanics in the back. He doesn't remember repairing the motor the first time nor can he explain why it was a returned in sloppy condition the first time. Although no call backs from them I finally I get the shipping information emailed to me.
    • Motor is pulled, fluids drained and prepared for shipping. Oil is black again but less than 300 miles on motor since last install. I cut apart the oil filter and find metal particles. Also metal particles in the breathers. Something is obviously wrong with the internals. Ships out on 10/8/2009 for the second repair.
    • No communication from M&R for over two weeks and then my motor magically reappears with no paper work and no reimbursements or dynode sheets as promised. Further, the bolt attaching the harmonic balancer is broken off, one spark plug boot is torn and another spark plug wire is melted. My motor is also covered with tape adhesive.
    • I call and speak with Matt who once again is evasive as to what they did to the motor. He claims he has been too busy to get me the dynode paper work but that it hit 420 at the flywheeland there was nothing wrong with the motor. I ask about the rattle and he states they might have adjusted some valves. These guys are amazing at the lies. Matt once again promises to send new valve covers and dynode paper work. That was three weeks ago and I have nothing from them. :mad:
    • As I warned Matt, I took the motor directly over to another engine builder to dynode and assess. Numbers came in at 385 at the fly wheel and still hearing rattles. The motor is being torn down as I write this for a complete salvage/rebuild to get the motor I was originally seeking.
    • After two failed attempts to repair and make it right, a year and half of time wasted, thousands in additional expenditures I have had it with their lies and the BS. The whole situation has been unacceptable and the quality of service and product has been abysmal. I have been more than patient, calm and willing to work with them on resolving but to no avail. I offered again for them to just refund my money and just let us quietly go our separate ways but they opted to continue the charade. This motor purchased from M&R was obviously not mechanically sound and is unable to produce the performance I paid for and M&R sold/advertised. Once my tear down is complete I will be seeking restitution.

    Bottom line is avoid these guys at any cost. My experience has been an absolute frustrating and costly nightmare. Their service is terrible, their motors are junk and the quality is atrocious. I cannot believe they are still in business and I certainly do not believe they ever could have built motors for Boyd Coddingtion.

    If you have any questions just drop me a note.
     
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  4. 70vert

    70vert New Member

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    Sounds like a nightmare no American consumer buying American should suffer through.

    vette69,
    I have to say that misery loves company. I've been waiting on a T&L engine for over a year, and sitting through numerous delay excuses, but have some faith that their final product will be good. There are a number of people ****ed off about the wait but happy about their final engine from T&L. It pains me to see someone on the opposite end of the spectrum, with a reasonably speedy delivery but a product that blew up.

    After waiting too long for my original engine from T&L (I knew it would take a long time, but over a year is unacceptable) I started on my backup plan of getting my original 302 built up as a 331. I had hoped to do this myself, but I need a working performance in this car. I used a local, well-regarded, builder for this that a guy from the local mustang shop had an almost-identical engine built up by. So far, the communication experience has been great with these guys. So, eventually, I'll have 2 engines for the price of 3. :rolleyes: and another project I can put the engine into, hopefully, down the road.

    I hope you get all the restitution you're entitled to. Hard-working Americans spending our dollars in this country supporting small businesses deserve better. :flag::SNSign:
     
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  5. Justin01

    Founding Member

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    More so than I could have been. I got frustrated with your story and would've given up after about the 5th or 6th bullett.

    He might as well just **** on the motor while he's at it. This is horrible. :mad:
     
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  6. rwcstang

    rwcstang New Member

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    hey you guys sorry i haven't posted in a while. First off i had to get the papers served to matt, i spoke with a lady down in the glendale area she was explaining to me over the phone that she went in the shop several times and spoke to the same person and he said the owner was not there...heres the catch, she went in the next day in the rear of the shop and spoke with random employee which pointed him out and it was the guy saying the owner wasn't here the whole time...:shrug: the lady explained that this guys was an ******* and said to her "i've been waiting for this"...wow what a douche to avoid this...so i guess he could care about any law as long as he gets money....

    so today in the morning i went to small claims in my county and guess what he failed to show up, obviously he thinks its a game but believe me I aint done with him yet until i get my refund. anyways the judge went in my favor, not only that i showed him all the print outs of this thread which he was pretty much surprised, anyways there a new law that if the defendant loses it will screw up his credit SO I RECOMMEND EVERYONE TAKING HIM TO SMALL CLAIMS!!!!! or another type of court system.

    Good luck everyone. also make sure you add 10% interest but also make sure to talk to your courts or lawyers etc... again good luck everyone, lets take this unprofessional engine "builder" down... :flag:
     
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  7. hhead

    Founding Member

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    To make small claims really work. You do need his work info or banking info right? So they can attach his wages? Otherwise you just have to wait.
     
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  8. rwcstang

    rwcstang New Member

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    at this point i am unsure prolly going to have to wait if anything he has 30 days to pay me back, right now ill be looking into other options as of right now. :nice:
     
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  9. shikwann

    shikwann New Member

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    Armando! This is your brother! Get that damn car out of the garage already! I'm tired of having MY pride and joy suffer in this cold weather!

    :chair:
     
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  10. mustangman1974

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    next time continue with the BAR I had crappy body work done and the BAR shut he shop down for 6 months while they investigated. My complaint had all the details they needed to to an in-depth investigation.

    On the claims case, be sure when you go back to court to ask for the judgment to be bonded. Can't welsh on that.
     
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  11. Greggk

    Greggk New Member

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    thank you guys. i was contemplating on buying a motor from them. you saved me a lot of time, effort, and money! Kuddos
     
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  12. rwcstang

    rwcstang New Member

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    screw them man... its a huge hassle. if anything try fordstrokers.com or get a local shop to build one for you.
     
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  13. vette69

    vette69 New Member

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    M&R should be avoided - follow up

    Glad you had luck in taking them to court. I contacted the BAR and they said my case fell outside their regulatory jurisdiction. They referred me to Los Angeles County Department of Consumer Affairs (LADCA)who assists consumers who have been victimized by businesses in Los Angeles County. The also recommended California Department of Justice, Office of the Attorney General. The AG's office establishes and operates projects and programs to protect consumers from fraudulent, unfair, and illegal activities that victimize consumers. The AG also enforces consumer laws by seeking injunctions and civil penalties and has jurisdiction to stop a particular business practice and seek penalties for violations of the law.

    As an aside I took my motor to a local engine builder as I mentione din my previous post to be torn apart. The good news was that I at least got certain parts that I paid for such as forged crank, forged pistons, roller cam etc. The bad news is that it would never have produced the output advertised and appeared to have been assembled by someone who had no idea what they were doing. They used silicon on the oil pan along with a gasket which had broken down and was in the motor. My oil pump had broken free and was laying in the pan. The gaskets used were too large and were actually blocking flow. The heads were too small and of poor quality. Nothing lined up properly. The motor was literally choking itself. :notnice:

    To get what I want we decided to increase the compression, change out the intake, change out the heads, change out the rockers, advance the cam and go with a much lighter flywheel. Motor should be finished any day and will be fully dynoed before ever leaving the shop.

    This has certainly been a lesson learned and re-enforces the value in finding a local and trusted resource. I cannot imagine that M&R will last much longer with such poor output however I wouldn't be surprised if they surface another day but just under a different name.

    When all is said and done I will go back through all my expenditures and work with my attorney on how I want to proceed with restitution.
     
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  14. rwcstang

    rwcstang New Member

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    Thanks as of right now, im waiting for any kind of payment but again im having doubts. But rest assured i am not finished with him yet.
     
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  15. hhead

    Founding Member

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    Tough lessons to be learned. Local is always best, with dyno session. Nothing beats seeing your brand new motor being flogged on a dyno!!
    I'd consider 200 miles to be with in local driving distance for a reputable motor builder.
    At least this can be said. DON"T buy from M&R.
    Sad thing is, as long as people use price as their reason for buying. This is going to keep happening.
    There's another thread of T&L. I keep saying the same thing there. Why do people want to keep giving these places chances? Oh, it won't happen to me???
    But their price is x amount cheaper.....
    Glad to hear you're getting it done right this time!
    Looks third when you google M&R engines ebay.
    Hopefully more people read this.
     
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  16. vette69

    vette69 New Member

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    The irony for me is that I really would have preferred to have gone with someone locally from the beginning. Almost of all the local speed and performance shops dealing with vintage muscle cars have evaporated around me. Machine shops have dried up as well. Most of what is left caters to the newer cars and the younger generation looking to add various mods to their foreign imports. It was only by chance that I finally learned of a local builder with a complete machine shop, dyno and 30 years of experience. Upon visiting I learned its exclusivity is due to them solely dealing with the local race circuit and maintaining a core group of loyal racers who rebuild every year. Those along with a few other builds provides them enough volume to not engage in advertising or solicitation of other business. Interestingly they do very few complete builds as they mentioned that to do it right they could never compete with the prices charged by those marketing online which turn out inferior products.
     
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  17. ralph6648

    ralph6648 New Member

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    Well, let me add my discouraging experience about M & R Motors aka M & R Engines. Sold me a 5.0 short block, with cam, lifters, balanced, and they degreed the cam, etc. I was told I could install heads with 2.02 intake and 1.60 valves and there would be plenty of clearance, but after a short run (maybe 5 minutes at most), I had to take off the heads, and discovered the valves were hitting the top edge of the valve reliefs, although just slightly. Matt, the owner, agreed to fix the problem, so I sent him the pistons, and now he does not return my calls, or emails. I am still trying to resolve this problem with him, but due to his lack of response, I have just filed a claim with the Better Business Bureau. At this point, I would not recommend business with this company; as it is obvious he doesn't know much about a Ford engine, and is the poorest service oriented business I have ever delt with.
     
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  18. 10secgoal

    10secgoal Active Member

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    Ralph don't bother. BBB can't do ****. Contact these people right here.
    Bureau of Automotive Repair, State of California, Dept. of Consumer Affairs
    Also if you valves were hitting, your valves are bent also. Even if just a bit. Pour water in the intake and exh runners and see if they leak. that's a dead give away. Even if they seal, they are still bent. But the spring pressure usually has enough force to straighten the valve and make it seal. Take them out and you will see they are bent. They aren't picking up the phones at all over there. I've called them myself 5 times this week. trying to get a hold of them

    We dropped one of their motors in Camaro and warned the customer about them before we put it in. he had bought it years ago so there wasn't much to do but try it. Pump leaked as soon as the rad was filled. The oil pan leaks, the hyd lifters are NOISY, and the cltuch they sent with the egnine was not the right one for the flywheel they installed. The chinese dist didn't fire, replaced with a MSD. Fun part is how the chinese make the backing plate for the water pump that is leaking. I resealed it with a good gasket and rtv but only held until a pressure test. the ribbing comes short of the bolts and there is nothing to seal the gasket. Ordered a different pump but have to send it back because the one on the engine has stand off to have the brackets for the acc's. Now I have to make this junk work. Stay away guys. Just waiting to see what happens when I run it for more than 10 mins.
     
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  19. 10secgoal

    10secgoal Active Member

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    El auditor also hasn't come back in here but he was also having more HG's issues once he got his "new" warrantied engine back from these knuckle heads.
     
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  20. rwcstang

    rwcstang New Member

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    yeah since the court thing he still hasn't paid me and his 30 days are up. so right now I'm looking into what else i can do. I'm sure he has been through this before and knows prolly how to work the system.

    also when the process server "served" him she didn't know who he was at first and the person she spoke with kept saying that the owner wasn't here, few days later she entered through the back of the shop and notice the some workers didn't speak any good english and thinks they are Immigrant workers, but finally one of the "techs" that spoke english pointed the owner out and its was Him the whole time saying "the owner is not here" from the description she gave me its a tall white male with blue eyes. she said that he was very rude with her.

    Like everyone on here I've been patient and willing to resolve, but dealing this for a year its upsetting.

    Ill update this as i go if anything anyone please feel free to email me [email protected] i usually go on here but i do get notifications when someone replies to this thread.

    I hope we all get our money back, this man is pure garbage. I have some information that may help us believe me this guy makes MONEY! if you need some info please email me maybe we can share on what we have found on this guy.


    anyways I just ordered a boss 302(bcam) from ford. best money i ever spent, but i will get my money back from matt.
     
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