Dano, You left me hanging? I figured you had better things to do. Don't we all? Catalog builders? Yeah, I know them. I call them BOBs, for Bolt On Boys. You write some people want to be spoon fed rather than put effort into the work. ... sometimes I get the feeling (and this isn't everybody and not in every case) we're suppose to to all the footwork for them. .... sometimes i feel, why should I let out all the secerets? I've spent alot of my time just figuring this stuff out That pretty much nails it. At times I get the impression some of these people are entitled to information others had to work to obtain. That's one of my major gripes against Grahl, he got on The List and demanded we turn over our information .... WTF? So now when I believe I see someone who thinks their entitled it brings back an old , bad taste. Dano writes: Sorry to ramble on, I just want to encourage other car enthusists to get out there and be more resourceful rather than letting just their credit card do the work. So true, and the reason I quit going to shows. This Car thing has turned into people using a mix and match of the same parts from the same hand full of venders. A good illustration of what I feel individuality has become can be seen in the South Park episode Raisins Use to be I would got o shows to see how different people handled problems ... seems noow they handle the problem with the credit card and phone. I can't understand how they get fullfillment from that. Ahh, but I ramble.